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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    st-eustache qc.canada
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    239

    Default Vehicles electronics systems and welding...Have i been just lucky many many times?

    Last week i welded on some equipment i just installed on a F_250 super duty 2015 (YES 2015) and had no second thought about it, and no problem either.

    This morning i remembered things about battery isolators and other precautions, also heard the stories of nightmares about totaling ecm etc..

    Just read that 2008 thread here : http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ng-on-my-truck

    Still not convinced about all these precautions.

    Common sense such as a good clean work clamp close to the weld seems to be enough for me. Thinking about service trucks that have welding tables attached to the bed, do they disconnect battery?

    Who has first hand experience with that?

    Are there some fancier welding process ( hf. ac balance, pulse etc...) that have higher risks to induce damages to ecu etc...?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Hermiston Oregon
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    278

    Default

    From my experience. An electrical current always find the path of lease resistance. I don't disconnect my batteries either if I'm in the other end of the truck with the ground close to the weld area. But I always disconnect any customers battery. Just in case..
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    st-eustache qc.canada
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    Default

    thank's guys , 66+ views and only 2 opinions

    ecervantes who disconnects (chicken! ???)

    and me who does'nt...(idiot! ???)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the epicenter of the Green Mountain Range in VT
    Posts
    394

    Default

    Welder voltage would be destructive to electronic equipment. Therefore don't connect your ground clamp to an ECM, then lay your work on it to weld. Generally a ground clamp connected to the work piece should mean nearly no voltage through the electronics.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    60

    Default Welding and grounding

    I've been welding for 34 yrs now and with the newer equipment out there with a lot of electronics it makes you wonder. I've done both unhooked the batteries sometimes and sometimes not. I have one customer with a ken worth dump truck that always unhook his batteries before I show up with the rig. One place I worked at required we double ground.we had a piece of weld cable 5 ft in length with a ground clamp on both ends, we attached the ground from the machine next to where we were welding and the double went right next to that ground and the other ex drove a ground rod in the ground and attached the other one to it. One thing that does come to mind is tig welding. High freq. will do strange things to electronics. So The best way today is to take the extra time to protect the electronics. Might be the difference of making money or losing your butt.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cave Creek Az
    Posts
    1,048

    Default

    I haven't disconnected yet, and no troubles. Clean, shiny ground close to the work.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    419

    Default

    There are too many variables to give a definitive answer. There are likely scenarios where disconnecting the ground is worse than leaving it connected since you can't disconnect all the grounds in the vehicle. Not having a place to dissipate transients can be bad. A disconnected ground will probably protect the battery and maybe in most cases parts of the charging system but the ECM I'm not so sure. It might be more important to keep your leads away from the ECM and as much related wiring as possible. I wouldn't wrap my leads around the ECM to make an extra choke for instance. Disconnecting and removing the ECM might be safer but the potential for damage in handling increases and even finding them in some vehicles can be a challenge. Probably the best place to seek advice is the manufacturer of each individual vehicle. I still can't wrap my head around how boosting a Trailblazer burn out the circuit boards. I believe it does, I just don't see why.---Meltedmetal

  8. #8

    Default Welding and Inadvertent firing of air bag systems

    I have the factory service and body collision repair manuals for several Toyota vehicles... Their guidance for on vehicle welding, in addition to the clamp as close to work and to know the welding current path, is also concerned about inadvertent firing of the air bags and seat belt tensioners..

    Toyota air bag systems (unlike certain GM models as we have learned) have an auxiliary energy storage system that can fire the airbags for up to 90 seconds after battery power has been lost and independent of ignition switch setting.. This function is there as in the early phase of a collision, or 2 strike collision, the battery/wiring can be destroyed, yet the air bags still have power to fire.

    Therefore their guidance is to disconnect the battery and wait 90 seconds before performing any on vehicle welding.
    Last edited by dandeman; 08-30-2014 at 06:23 AM.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Western Pa.
    Posts
    296

    Default Vehicles electronics systems and welding...Have i been just lucky many many times?

    Also welded many years, a lot of different equipment. Within last couple months welded on Vac. Truck and directional drill. Both have heavy electronics. Did disconnect battery's but felt that never eliminated risk. I've always thought bare metal, good ground, close to work and kept ground on main welding metal between weld & electronics. Also always started arc on ground side of metal when tacking & starting weld.
    Never thought of double ground. That is good idea. Maybe double ground both sides of weld area in high risk cases??

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    st-eustache qc.canada
    Posts
    239

    Default

    Now the air bags :s...geee. we're walking on thin ice over a mine field!

    I plan to experiment on a car to be taken out to scrap, will try to blow everything that i can and post pics. first by welding with proper procedure and even with engine running but no disconnecting.

    Do you have suggestions for worse work clamp position ie. from muffler to weld on a fender, to battery ground lug, to remove battery and clamp the+ lug, i plan to mig stick and tig hf.

    It would be nice to hear from guys that had PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of any kind of incidents involving welding and current damage to systems.

    Hey cops! forget the spike strips, get a welder!
    Last edited by snowbird; 08-30-2014 at 06:59 AM.

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