Trade vs. University Education
In a recent Wall Street Journal column, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg launched a sweeping critique of the nation’s educational system based on a recent report from the National Center on Education and the Economy (NCEE).
The report found that only 18 out of 100 high school freshman will go on to graduate on time and receive a two year degree within three years or a four year degree within six years. Dismal findings, to be sure, but Bloomberg misuses the study to argue for a wholesale revamp of the educational system away from technical and trade education and toward traditional university education.
“It used to be that those without college degrees could count on well-paying jobs in manual labor; those days are long gone,” Bloomberg wrote. But he’s wrong. The real problem isn’t a lack of well-paying manual labor jobs, it’s a lack of qualified workers to fill those jobs.
Positions in the skilled trades — welding, plumbing, home building, road construction and masonry just to name a few — are plentiful, do pay living wages and usually include respectable benefits as well. Identifying and recruiting students into the skilled trades, instead of allowing them to drift into a cycle of low-paying, unskilled positions, will yield a better overall “return on our investment,” as Mayor Bloomberg puts it.
What’s your take? Is there any hope left for those entering the skilled trades? Are high schools providing enough resources for students interested in pursuing skilled trades? Please weigh in on this subject by leaving a comment below.
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May 16th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
I work for a community college. The faculty doesn’t want the college to get a trade school image, even if there is plenty of need in the community. That is great for local trade schools that charge a RIDICULOUS amount of money for basically the same instruction. The sad part is that most of the cost is in the forms of student loans. So, the student graduates with a massive debt load as they are starting their career.
If a college is looking to increase its enrollment, teaming with local business (to provide equipment, instructors and support) is a great way to jump-start a program. The shortage of nurses and dental hygenists in our area was the driving force behind a successful program at our college. Because these were related to the medical field, they fell into the category of white collar jobs.
Welding, machineshop and construction jobs are considered blue collar, and are given less priority. Yet, I know of several successful General Contractors and fabricators in the area that can buy and sell most of our faculty. I think community colleges can provide a terrific resource for students seeking to learn a skilled trade, but the administrators and faculty are still living in the ivory tower of acadamia.
Most Community Colleges are paid for students’ warming a seat, not whether the student successfully completes their degree. Imagine how much more helpful a college would be if they were paid a bonus for students that completed a degree. Until the mindset can be changed (or State/Federal legislation mandates it) there isn’t much option.
I have taken welding classes at my college. I had to buy my own consumables and metal in order to have it available; despite having paid a hefty materials fee when I enrolled in the class. Students that didn’t purchase their own supplies learned little. In order to learn in this environment, you have to be hungry. I ended up purchasing my own TIG rig (Miller Dynasty 200 DX) because I was tired of waiting for a machine and materials in class. If the resources were there I would still be taking classes. I’m sure I’m not the only student that feels that way. The only reason to attend class is to get a Welding Cerification.
May 16th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
i have been a cert. welder for 30 years and i do not live off the system or another mans taxes can anybody in that sector talk to me i think not
May 16th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
I go to Greenville Tech, I am taking welding there . i dont know if i am off subject or not but in my area all the companies want experience? not just welding but out in the field . there is just one thing i wanna know. how do you get experience with the right company? and I think that hope is still out there but not in full force.
May 17th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
As it goes trade vs university…Well blue collar is responsible for all the infrastructure that white collar uses and has gotten its education in. But without blue theres not much that can be achieved. think about that for a minute.No I’m not against the white collar worker….they get paid to think wich is great. and make more than us most of the time. Just at the end of the day…that building aint goin up by itself,that Benz isnt going to make itself,and thoes I.T lines wont go with out some intinal backbone to make it so.
We spend a lot on education….get the most out of it. because once you got it ..you got it and time is short to be wasting.
May 17th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
White or Blue, It’s starts with family, or people who care.. Got support, and education from people who love you or care to see you grow into a successful person? Because no one can teach you more than they, especially if they have an education from somewhere that cared about them and their success!! Left or right , blue or white,, think about it,, and live it… We grow thru school, public to college. Time to get a job, did we listen and follow directions, were we motivated to be ethical and honest, were we driven by ourselves , and others who should care about us more than themselves to be given a chance, or trusted? Everyones got an Idea, reason , or excuse. Bottom line—Without Us or them, there is no me….. Ghetto Philosophical I know,,, But I own a business, ASF Ironworks,, Eugene Oregon.. There is nothing I would appreciate more, than people who have these traits or values growing with them from day one…. Because for us that do, it’s peace when we find those who do…. And as we all know, it is the few and proud that take this responsibility to heart and soul,,, Hence— the USA…
May 21st, 2007 at 2:02 pm
You can’t ship a car to China for repair. I live in a university town in CA and some of the best incomes can be found in home repairs/building, and auto repair. Some of the newly minted graduates will find that India and China will provide the very talents they just spent 5 years and thousands to optain.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 pm
Those Who Can - Do
Those Who Can’t - Teach
Those Who Can’t Teach - Teach Teachers
Those Who Can’t Teach Teachers - Become Politicians
Any More Stupid Questions Why Things Are So Screwed Up?
May 24th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
common sense is a great man
May 25th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
I am a Tradesman all the way well, an apprentice that is and i am more for the route that i am currently involved in. The program that i am in is a 5 year program where we work most of the year (if you are good) with the Sheet Metal Workers Union. Out side of work we go to school for 5 weeks out of the year where welding is a major part of what they cover but most of what we learn is on the job in real work applications and i think thats more valuable than a class room any day. You get a chance to learn how to do things in the enviroment that you will be required to to them and that kind of expirence cannot be copied in a class room.
May 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
oops i got alittle off topic any way as far as i can see there will allways be a need for those in the skilled trades.
May 25th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
I finished my C Level (most basic level) welding at Kwantlen University College in BC Canada and am now working fulltime welding fireplaces. This non structural, production job is paying 42,000 a year with benefits and stats paid! I have certifications in Fluxcore all position and could make more, with just my entry level welding skills. That is another story.
I had 4 high school sponsored students who had a full ride through the welding class, and when they finished another 4 replaced them. The schools around here are working at getting more people into the trades.
The money for skilled trades persons is there, the support is growing from high schools. I did not have the option to go into the trade of welding but carpentry was available. I was immature and was not interested in my own future so I did not take advantage.
My end goal is to further advance in my trade and become a rig welder. Pipeline welders are making upwards of 140 dollars an hour. That figure is on the high end up in northern BC.
Kwantlen is supported by the government and per student it costs about 400 dollars a week. The government pays 300 of that so my tuition was 100 per week and for a total of 3100 dollars. That is the main reason I was able to afford … the training. Consumables and materials are supplied. Good stuff !
I love welding and wouldn’t give it up to sit at a desk for 8 hours!
My comment is a little rampant, there is so much you can touch base on when it comes to the topic of not enough trades persons, support to properly train the ones already in the trades and is there hope ???
The fact is, there is so much demand (at least in Canada) that the wages are increasing for skilled labor. I started work 2 days before I graduated … and get this. I started working 2 days before graduation while attending Waterworks Technology School and Kwantlen.
If you enjoy putting a good days work then the trades is where you want to be.
Thanks for looking at my story.
Regards
Jesse
May 26th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
some seemed to speak a little poltical in my opinion but from my experience you get the experience you want from a little b.s to get the job that is how i got into welding. though i have seen first hand that education means you learned from a book and don’t have much of a clue as to how it really works. this has proven itself many times and on a more personal note to matt brisset when you finally get into the work place listen to what you are told even if it goes agaist what you taught, you can make youself look real stupid by smarting off to guys that have done it for years. and if you do make sure you get it right
May 30th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
20 years ago I graduated from a technical school even though college was pushed as the way to go. I still live in the same small community and it has only gotten worse. The local community college has lost most of its trade courses and been replaced with courses like french in a english and spanish speaking community. As a business owner now, I find that the hardest part is getting some one to pass a drug test for I would gladly teach the right person. As for on the job training verses taking classes. It’s simple learn the basics and the theory first and it makes it easier to learn on the job with or without some one to train you. As for the young person who had the odacity to complain and say that everyone wants some one with experience before they will give them a job is right in his thought but wrong in his mind set, for a person who looks for WORK will never have a problem finding it regardless of experience.
June 5th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
I have tried collage twice and I just was not able to get into it. I belive that some people like me were not ment to go to collage. It’s not that I can’t learn. I belive that welding something is where I am supposed to be. Since I was little I have always been with busy hands, making or repairing something. I went to a trade school. They had all the supplies and gear which is payed for by student loans. I got what I payed for, but I payed dearly for it. After school I had a few welding tests comming up. I passed all three tests but was let go from the one job that I picked for lack of experiance. I tried for the next two years to get a welding job of any kind. I finaly got one structural job I hung on to that job like it was a million dollars. (3 1/2 Years). I have a job with a great Air Cooler manufacture in Oklahoma. The pay is good in the twenty dollar range it does get better than that depending on your classification A-B-C. C being the lowest. There are a couple of school teachers that go to our sundayschool class who are making after four years of collage 1/3rd. of my pay per year. Blue is my life in the working world and I will not do anything else. Don’t be discoraged if you don’t feel right about collage because something else better suited for you is waiting. God bless.
June 11th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
How about being paid to learn? Joining a union can provide instant improvement for your future. Entering an apprenticeship through the union provides quality education and quality pay.
I’ve heard some people complain that contractors won’t hire you unless you have field experience. Contractors signatory with the union are aware that they are helping their future as well as the future of the work force by hiring apprentices. Their on the job training combined with the unions in school training ensures that an all around education directed towards the skills used in the field will be of the highest quality.
Union provided education through apprenticeship directs only the knowledge and skills suited for the job into the training. Ironworkers, Pipefitters, or Piledrivers, each have specific tasks to complete, therefore each apprenticeship involves the teachings specific to each trade.
Taking welding classes in a vocational school is a great start, but applying it to the construction field is tough, just like learning to MIG weld is to SMAW. It’s a great start and you have somewhat of an idea, but it’s just not the same as actually doing it.
Taking welding classes that offer a wide range of processess and materials is a great way of getting to understand what you like and don’t like. After you know what it is you are seeking for a career, look up you different local unions and find out what it is they offer and seek out of their apprentices. You’ll find that with previous welding education most unions will find you a valuable candidate, because of this and the self initiative shown in continuing your education on your own.
June 14th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
After working 15 years as an ASE Master Technician, I decided to return to school to learn welding in an effort to start my own custom shop. I elected to attend the local Community College not because of the low tuition but because the instructor has an excellent reputation with the local manufacturers. What astounds me is the college’s attitude towards the students learning a trade. It is almost as if they reguard them as second class citizens not worthy of all the benefits given to students in the acedemic side. Our instructor is a very wise man who points out “We can have all the best engineers in the world but someone has to be able to build what they design. Thats where we come in and make their ideas possible.” To me, any student who can learn enough skills to perform a 6G fixed pipe weld is worth more than some kid who wants to design video games. However the powers that be don’t see that, they have ceased teaching trade skills in our high schools and are working to downplay trade technology in our colleges. Learning a trade may not be the most glamourous thing to do but many pay better than jobs that require a 4 year degree. It has become painfully obvious to me that when a manufacturer is willing to pay shipment of material to a foriegn country just so it can be welded and ship it back, there is level of desparation for skilled labor.
June 15th, 2007 at 6:42 am
For me the family I know is mostly my mothers side and they are all doctors and teachers, I have always felt the need to follow along with them in attempts to seem as good or equal. From what I know on my fathers side they are mostly unemployed heavy drug users or alcoholics. There is me my sister and my cousin from my fathers side who will be graduating from high school and doing something with ourselves. I picked welding as my option, my family have gone along with it instead of my thoughts being I should go to university. Trying to get work in the welding trade is hard for me because they want people with the experience but how do you get the experience without getting work in the trade first? I will be going to school next year for welding but still I would love a job to start early. I guess that’s life living in Prince Edward Island.
July 5th, 2007 at 9:26 am
The problems are the same in the UK. We have kids going off to university thinking a degree is going to get them high paying executive jobs, then finding out that is not the case and their qualifications are mirrored by thousands of others and they are not that special. Meanwhile no kids want to put on overalls and get dirty, so there are no qualified welders/fabricators coming through the ranks to fill the jobs that are plentiful in the trade. Tony Blair and his education policy of 50% of kids going to Uni’ has a lot to answer for.
July 9th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
andrew foster you sound like a very smart man
July 28th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
I was a certified welder for seven years. I had 2 D 1.1 certs, 2 Nuclear Certs,and 3 USCG Aluminum certs, after 9.11 the bottom dropped out of the manufacturing sector,welding jobs were scarce I decide to go back to school. That was five years ago and I am in my third year of Architecture School. I am a draftsman and I am highly skilled and I still make less that I did in my fifth year as a welder. Three weeks ago I got layed off for the fifth time in two years and I decide that I would return to my former trade. I was excited about all of this until I started to try and find work. If there is a welder shortage it has NOT hit New England yet. I keep finding postions available everywhere else but NE and I am not seeing the desperation that is describe either here or in a related article in the latest Welding journal. Anyhow after all this nattering on, my point is that if there is a “shortage” that it is only in specific regions and or I am not searching in the right places for a position. I am looking at re-certing and such and have even purchased a welder(not a miller:D) to assist with all of this. But I am having trouble justifying the expense of this if there are no jobs out there to be had. So it really adds up to the age old saying “it’s not what you know, but also who” and connections w/in the industry are helpful. I have tried the unions, the do not even return my phone calls/emails. I am even looking for a new drafting position, same thing. I think that the only way that this so called “shortage” could also be helped by org’s and companies working together to find/train and assist with the placement of folks w/in there newly learned set of skills and co’s being more willing to look at that green welder who is still wet behind the ears and see the potential of what the future hold if they would strive to retain the new hires. Not so much with wage increases but with the attention to the educational needs of everyone as a whole.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
I am currently in trade school (in welding) and when I graduate I will be a certified stick welder, certified fabricator, and,hopefully, a certified pipe welder. My brother is a certified plumber and has recently landed a job as a pipefitter making over $23.00 an hour even though he was supposed to start out at $16.00 I am sick and tired of people scrutinizing skilled labor.