Immigration and Welding
Once again, the issue of immigration is making headlines. This time there were widespread reports of farmers who decided not to plant crops this year because immigration crack-downs have reduced the number of workers who help with the harvest.
These, for the most part, are fairly low skill, low-paying jobs by American standards, and there aren’t a lot of Americans claiming that illegal migrants are taking farm hand jobs that should rightfully go to legal residents.
Welding, by contrast, is a high skill, high-paying job, especially by trade standards. Although there hasn’t been a major rebellion against illegal immigrants taking welding jobs that should go to legal residents, there also hasn’t been a lack of available welding jobs. In fact, it’s the opposite — there are more jobs than welders — for now.
The ongoing welder shortage could very well lead to employers looking to other countries for their welders, which could make progress toward solving the welder shortage, but also lead to protests from American welders.
There are valid points on either side of the immigration debate, and we’re not advocating either side in this blog. However, these are genuine issues that affect, or will soon affect, the lives of everyone in the industry. We should all take it upon ourselves to learn as much about this issue as we can, so that we can form our own well-educated opinion on the subject.
What are your thoughts or experiences on the immigration issue as it relates to welding? Are immigrants a good way to address the welder shortage? Please share your thoughts by posting a comment below.
Average (Not Rated)
October 30th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
Hy! about the topic, I think, that the shorthage in welders in America is not a matter of ligal or not ligal residents. To me it is a proffesion well skilled to de most if you are talking about a “welder man” a cuality welder.this people is made at the school or at the job site,it does not make a difference, if the individual have the conviction for this profesion. In may working carrer I have met a lot a good welders how deserve all my respect. And to the other hand I do have to tell tha this is not a easy job, it is well paid, but not all people prefers good pay, many times is better to have a good airconditioned emviroment even sacrifing a few dollars, and those are the coments I have heard among welders… Peter Garcia Shop foreman …from Mexico.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:55 pm
I think about all this, they are the Latin legal or illegal people, in this country, which is a free country and which was I begin for immigrants of several parts of the world, we would have to respect these people, that the only thing that they do is to work without rest, without asking the government of USA for anything anything The migratory reform would have to be supported by all the companies on the country, I do not want to say that all the people, this one in disagreement with the immigrants, but many people know that they can abuse them for being illegal and for being very good workpeople I have the hope that the future is better for all, and you might have the best welders and better workpeople. Hector from Appleton
November 1st, 2007 at 8:49 pm
making job training available with the studies to back it up
for american citizens is the long term answer,importing
skilled welders or workers is short sighted. we need to give our young people a better chance again for jobs that have
pride of accomplshment and a secure future. in two or three years with journyman oversite we would have the young
people well on the way to filling the jobs. ask any one around
during ww2 it can be done
November 2nd, 2007 at 1:06 pm
I am almost impressed with your English skills. As such, how are you at reading blue prints? Are you able to communicate problems effectively? Not to offend anyone, but communication in any manufacturing field is essential to safety, quality, and manufacturing integrity. Illegal is illegal. Period. A good education AND training should be a prerequisite to any structural and/or manufacturing job. Video games don’t count as an education. My child will be like me in at least one respect; he’ll have an education and he’ll have a trade. Surely one or the other will keep him employed in an environment of safety and security. He’ll look back and say “My building is still standing. Not surprised.” rather than looking back and wishing he did it right the first time. This is called integrity and dignity.
November 2nd, 2007 at 2:51 pm
As a retired welding teacher.I can tell you it doesn’t matter if the learning weldor is legal or Illegal. Whether he or she is white,black brown or yellow.
It’s what’s in his/her heart that matters. Welding is a differcult craft to learn . It requires 100 percent COMMITMENT while learning. The student must be willing to apply all of their ability and talents to the task.
Over 45 years I have worked in the Nuclear Industry and trained hundreds of welders from all walks of society. I have found that it doesn’t matter who the welder is .What matters is the QUALITY and QUANTITY of their welds. There are many reasons why we have a shortage of welders in this country. The answer is we must be willing to open the schools and industry must be willing to pay to train good hard working people who are ready to make a commitment to learn a fantistic trade that they can learn to love and are paid the wages that they deserve.
November 2nd, 2007 at 4:43 pm
In Canada (Alberta) there is a severe labour shortage and yes there is a Chinese labour force near Syncrude People from Chile in Lloydminister and a contigent of Malysians near Toefield all working on oilfield projects.
Still there is a shortage of labourers for constructiion and other trades.
Companies are basically just planning ahead. I’ve been into some machine & welding shops who are running with bare skeleton crews, and having to search outside of North America to run thier machines. It’s only going to get worse.
Yes there are communication issues, however if these people are trained properly and can do the job then all the power to them.
November 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 am
From what I have been seeing the shortage of welders has more to do with employers who try to “low-ball” the potential hires in many cases offering near or at minimum wage, and then cry about the results.
Immigration has little or nothing to do with the situation at the present time, however that may change and bears watching.
November 5th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
I own a manufacturing business. My family like everybody else’s in the USA were imigrants. the difference between the legal and illegal issue is the the term ILLEGAL. if somebody risks his or her life to escape from a country then does not take steps to become LEGAL, how good can that person be as a worker in any industry. If they don’t apply themselves to become a citizen then how hard will they apply themself to the job at hand. I have hired people that worked very hard until something that might pay .05 more comes along, then they just leave, no loyalty to my company for training them, no chance do I get to match the offer, they are just gone. I have people that have been with me for 10 years, they have recieved offers, but they give me the chance to be loyal to them, and I have.
Get Legal, show employers you have what it takes, you will get the job. Show some loyalty, you will get loyalty. No matter where you are from, learn english, old guys like me are NOT going to learn whatever language you speak, like Mr. Traylor says(not a perfect quote) “communication skills are very important”. They are a major key to quality and job performance.
Thank you
H.H.
Irish, Greek, and Russan. And I don’t speak anything but English
November 6th, 2007 at 12:07 am
The problem is employers who want to low ball the work force. In Canada they are bringing in people to do these job’s because of the profit margins. It may cost more in repairs but the money saved on labour costs offset repairs, plus completing a job on spec verse pentlies. The other thing is the all mighty dollar, greed is a driving force in this problem, I worked in a Canadian Rail car plant that closed (1200 people) because the profit margine in Mexico was better. Canadian manufracturing has had this problem for the last ten year’s. Now you have people in a lower income with a trade looking to better them selves so with the dream. There is a supply and demand problem. Kids are growing up in a urban enviorment without the need to use trade skills, Trade schools in Canada and I can guess in the US have a lot of empty seats. Because of the demand I had to move 4000 miles to make a living in the trade. I hope the people in the US will look at the problem in Canada and take the time to not allow the problem get out of hand as we fallow your trends.
November 6th, 2007 at 8:01 am
as far as this topic,i’ve worked along side some immigrants from mexico.the welders of the group actually were welding some pretty sound welds.not as well welded as mine,but for the funtion of the weld,they worked.
November 6th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Let’s say the true: the privilege US citizen or people that have the oportunity to work legally in this country is the one that is going to pick first and take the better jobs (easiest and well paid) the rest (the hard or dirty jobs, sometimes well paid because of the same hardeness) are the ones that not by option but for default need to take the worst or their family won’t eat, as simple.
Welding, farming, manufacturing, cleaning, packing, etc, the companies need people to do the job, and reliability, and the immigrants need the job, any job, even if they know they are going to be abuse they need to keep it or AGAIN their family won’t eat, as simple.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:26 am
I have no problem with legal aliens learning to weld and receiving employment in this country. However illegal is another story. Like Steve says communication is a major safey problem. In construction communication is paramount to safety on the job. Why should illegal aliens have the right to any employment in this country? Welding jobs can pay very good wages. Illegal aliens not only drive the hourly wages down for American citizens, but are a major drain on our social- economic system. W says there are not enough workers for the jobs available. Pay our citizens a decent wage that they can live on and I think You will see a much bigger pool of workers.
November 18th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
My husband has been on a few jobs where workers NOT being able to speak English has created a BAD situation. I think you have to be able to speak and read english because somebody elses life could be at stake and I’m not talking about picking produce either. Working around heavy equipment, following instructions and job safety. If you can’t read/speak english you and the people around you could be at risk. I think the companies that are knowingly employing illegals bare a big responsibility to this problem. Everything in this country is paying the price for absobing an illegal work force…. wages,healthcare ect. ect. ect.
November 19th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
By the way, my grandfather came from Italy in a boat. I have his certificate from Ellis Island. Just after he got to the USA, he served in the US armed forces in WW1. He became a legal welder just after the war. I’ve worked quite a bit in Mexico. The Mexican people in Mexico are treated like crap and paid worse. Period. That’s why they come over here. I an imigrant wants to live here, they should follow our rules and live by our laws. This includes paying taxes, having proper insurance, and acting better than the norm. It’s not about color, race, or religion. It’s about being right and living right for the future. Period, again.
November 19th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
now who’s fault is it that there is a shortage ?? the push for white collar workers and and easier working enviroment makes a lot of people go for it no dirt and nice clean office .. so us as northamericans talk about illegal what is the difference when we go to there country and do construction ???
i am not big on bringing foreign workers over when there is a sleu of young workers looking for a shot to get training and experience but company and employers need to sit down and figure out a way to get the young in to these .. we have a few young workers within our company that go with good quality tradesmen to learn the ropes and be safe and we give the company a labor break on there rate to get them into the business
and to learn .. the coleges here r full 2yr wait time just to train but the companies want skilled ??? where do we draw the line ??
November 23rd, 2007 at 7:17 pm
We don't build in mexico; we pay and suggest. They (edited) us on property costs, and give us cheap labor and cheap quality. Look at the Pharr Bridge; the American side is smooth, but the Mexican side is like a ride in the gulf. Our design, but separated by two construction methods. Go to McAllen and head to Pharr and take a ride on the bridge! You get what you pay for in this world; their corrupt gummit (slang for government) didn't get much because they didn't pay much. Is this what we should let happen to our codes and laws? Please answer the question without emotion. Just the facts. I know how these folks are treated in mexico and I know it's wrong. It's as wrong as a four-door motorcycle! They are the only people that can change it ! If we let them come over here, who will stop the corruption in mexico? We and our tax dollars will. (edited) We're doomed if we don't live as one country with one language and one law. Period….again.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Pay? Hmmmm. Let me see….I can work in an often hot and often uncomfortable environment for $35k per year, or I can be a department manager selling chinese crap at walmart for $60k per year. Tough choice. How 'bout some employers dropping a line to this blog trail? Not the small shops, but the mass producing few that are owned by "investment" firms. I bet we won't see a reply to this blog from auto parts suppliers and such. Why? They don't care about the blue shirts. Only their white shirts count. How can we entice young people into this field? Pay them. You get service two ways; full price or half way. Today's world leans toward the "half price" junction and sometimes toward the "full price/half way" crowd. Let's get it right America !!!
November 28th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
I have been on the white collar end of the working world (IBM, Texaco Research and various small companies), but after a 5 year absence to pursue Christian Ministry I am making welding my 3rd (and hopefully least) career. Why? Economic times are changing; and while a cushy office job is nice, it is also very easily moved to China. I believe in America there will always be a need for American men to join metal to metal here in America. It might be rough, lean and tight; but there will still be a need. As for immigration; I have never been a huge union fan, but under those circumstances I believe that would be the answer. In such circumstances it is the right environment for a “members lead” union of have its proper and true place. I know Japan was importing skilled tradesman from the USA about 10 years ago… it would be interesting to research and see what happened when their economic situation took a downturn when the “.com” bubble caused the Asian to tank a few years ago.
November 29th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Immigrants, weather legal or not, entering the US and taking welding, or other skilled trade jobs puts this country in a very bad situation. On the legal side, HB-1 policy allows thousands of immigrants to come to this country and take skilled trade jobs that are left unfilled due to the shortage of US welders etc. On the other side many illegal immigrants also take the welding and skilled trade jobs that are available.Aside and apart from the immigration, and homeland security issues addressed here
the United Stated is quickly eroding our skilled trades labor pool. With immigrants comming in and taking these jobs there is less to be had by our citizens. Therefore each year less and less schools offer welding, etc.
Now we are all feeling the pain because of this countries dependance on foriegn oil. If immigrants are allowed to keep flooding this country and taking the welding jobs the US will find itself dependent on foriegn workers
November 30th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Its a combination of companies not wanting to pay what welders are worth, and the lack of interest in the younger generation. I am only 17 years old, and have a solid career in welding. But everyone else my age is working at taco bell, or walmart saying that they are going to go to college and become a lawyer or some other high paying desk job where you dont have to get dirty. I dont think that we need any more lawyers, but no one wants to actually work hard any more. My family moved from Canada to the US because of work, And if getting welders from other countries is what it takes to keep this country going, makes people open their eyes to whats going on, maybe it will get more americans into the trade. Codi Esayenko from AZ
December 5th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
By not paying competitive wages, the employers are forced to outsource. The demand for welders may be high, but without compensation, why do the welding gig? Since the demand is high due to production requirements and the supply is low due to lack of interest which is due to pay, work environment, safety, etc… I think it’s safe to say that the employers and feds are to blame for this artificial imbalance of supply and demand. Take a look at the oil industry. We welders can control supply, but it doesn’t help with the advent of the cheap labor supply afforded this country by our lack of border control, NAFTA and such. Why would big oil increase capacity if the very lack of capacity makes the supply low relative to the demand? This raises prices of oil without requiring capital for infrastructure and labor improvements which leads to record profits. Who wants to leave their family or move their family to the tundra to make 70k after working 12 hour days 7 days per week welding? The man can’t get cheaper oil, but he can get cheaper workers and continue to use old facilities for production. BANG. We lose, they win…for a while.
December 6th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
im a 20 years old welding is what i do but it is so hard to find a job.
i have been look every where for a welding job. all my frends say i should take up a different hobbie i tole them that it’s only my hobbie it’s the way of my life.
so the next bast thing wanted to was be in the army as a welder and a
soilder. i can TIG, MIG, and Stike weld
December 7th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
David:
The US Military was hiring welders in Columbus, GA. Hang in there and find a shop that does more than repetitive production welding. Learn to crank handles on machine shop equipment, too. Become turn key. Robotic welding is not hard; learn it if you can. Fanuc stuff is really easy, so don’t be afraid to try it. I am a Mechanincal Engineer and I love the fact that I can weld with the best of them. There is good money in it IF you can find a home. Be careful and give ‘em hell !! I have 2 engine driven welders, LN25 for flux core, dry rig tig, small mig, and can beat the crap out of welding engineers when programming Fanuc welding robots. I keep my equipment so I can remain flexible. One education and one trade. Can’t lose if you set yourself up like that. You are still young, so don’t give up and don’t settle for low pay unless you are only capable of low pay work. If that’s the case, learn something every day. Grow your mind to grow your career. Weld to live or live to weld. Geographically, roughly where are you located? Maybe someone in this blog train can help you. I will try if I can.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
the only way americans will re enter the welding industries as weldors is to make it more profitable for them. unfortunatly the american buisnessman will hire illegalls only to exploit them economicaly. this brings wages way down from what they should be. illegals come here because they live in poverty at home & welding is an easy market to enter. no matter what the answer is lets keep two things in mind. #1 they are our neigbors. #2 they are the indigenous people of the continent.
December 11th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Yes, they are economically exploited, both at home and here in the US. Why don't they fix their problems at home? Because it's easier to run and hide in the US. Either way, they are going to be exploited, so why not do it in a place that lets them get away with "illegal" living.
December 17th, 2007 at 8:34 pm
Interesting discussion. I come from an IT background and can tell you for certain there never was a shortage of IT workers. This was a made up Hoax in order to let more H1B visa people into the country and drive down the wages in IT. As someone mentioned above it’s a supply/Demand situation. People aren’t willing to invest in education only to have their job outsourced or taken by an H1B visa holder/illegal immigrant. All of the H1B visas issued this fall were gone in 1 day. College enrollment in IT, math and science is dropping off of the board because there is no job security anymore. Don’t want to pay a prevailling wage? Call you congressman and ask for more visas/lax immigration policies. I enjoy welding as a hobby and I thinking about a career change. I can see this industry going down the drain too, if there is another false shortage. Who profits from a false shortage? Upper level management. I’ld be happy as a clam to be welding up in Alaska for the right money but, I think it’ll never pay a good wage when they claim a shortage. Shortages correct themselves, it’s econ 101.
December 30th, 2007 at 6:15 am
I recently worked a job in southern U.S where there was a lot of Hispanic workers. I found some to be very skilled at there respective trades, with some decent rod burners among them. However, I also found it to be extremely frustrating and dangerous working side by side with whole crews that could not ( or would not ) speak a word of English. I have no problem with someone coming to the U.S and working ( no matter what the trade ) as long as they are legal, learn to speak English, pay taxes, and follow all rules and regulations that are required of everyone else.
January 2nd, 2008 at 6:59 pm
I have worked as white collar worker and continue to be involved in this industry of welding. This job outsourcing has gotten out of control with a government that is unable/refuses to manage our resources, instead letting big business control the labor pool for greater profits. I have no problem with legal immiagrants who are willing to become a citizen and support the system. Look at our slowly detoriating health care, education system, and the rest of our infrastructure. Who can afford a 20,000 education to have it out sourced in two years. It affects the initative of our working class of people. I think there is a place for immigrants in this country that are willing to make a commitent to become a citizen and learn the english language, and are willing to pay taxes to support our system. That has made this country one of the most powerful in the world.
January 2nd, 2008 at 8:22 pm
bottom line.. greedy business owners will look for the person who wants
the least amount of pay, and who will be willing to sacrifice the american way
of life i.e( work 15 hr. days, work holidays) essentially bend over backwards
to make their world more profitable. welding to me is one of the last great
american trades, and i say that with certified pride. it’s insulting when i see
in the classifieds, welder wanted, spanish o.k, or bilingual a plus $10 per hr.
w.t.f? i know i know, this country was founded on immigrants, but they came
here to be americans, prosper, and help build this country to what is is now,
i myself am half mexican, but above that i’m an american and i think welders
deserve a lot more respect than what their getting now.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Respect is earned. We work our butts off for pay, but rarely get respect. Go weld a doctors boat dock and listen to them gripe about the charges. Then they'll tell you when you get your lungs checked that you're about to owe thousands of $$. I charge to include knowledge, risks, and warranty. They charge for guesses. (edited) No pay, no knowledge. Share the wealth or I won't share the knowledge.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
We shouldn’t be importing products made by abused labor, nor polluters, or we are undercutting our own economy. We should not, likewise, import cheaper labor on the black market. Why? A guy could raise a family as a house painter twenty years ago and now a young guy’s competing against illegals who hot bunk and only worry about a beer supply, cable TV, and remitting some money back to wherever. Sure they can run a crew if they have the gumption to contribute to the problem. (Sure you can say, “Just desserts for not being good in school” right? I don’t think so.)
Are we going to import doctors, lawyers, accountants, …? Why not? Let’s flood the market with “professionals” and see how they like it! Hey, let’s import politicians! Guess what! As we get more illegals we get more of them voting (illegally, but what are you going to do after the fact?) and then our country gets run more and more like all those unsuccessful, paternalistic, feudal countries south of the border.
If you think there’s a glut of welding work and we should bring in illegals to increase the supply of welders then guess what happens to the pay for weldors? …especially when there’s a subsequent oversupply?
I grew up speaking Spanish, BTW. I lived all over Latin America as a kid. I am 1/4 Puerto Rican by blood but I am 100% American. (I am ZERO percent Puerto Rican and that’s the way LEGAL immigrants act–GRATEFUL and assimilating.). It pains me to see the United States being dissolved by enemies and ignorants within. Anybody who thinks illegals aren’t an enemy should start paying attention. Look at what happens to countries which go bilingual. Look at countries who bring in non-assimilators–as you can see in Europe and now here.
It’s not just about weldors and pay levels. It’s about everything.
February 6th, 2008 at 5:03 am
I was born and raised in the San Francisco bay area. I’m 55 year old and have been welding for a living, for 33 years. I left the U.S. for New Zealand because my home has been invaded by vast numbers, (twelve million I believe just in California) of illegals. They, the illegals will work ten to twelve hour days, weekends, holidays for straight time and for a third of what the going rate is. They figured out years ago that working the fields of lettuce, payed less than, the fields the developers were turning into housing. The corporate powers, (money} that put politicians into power are lining their pockets and keeping the stock market looking good for the short term. This is how the United States is going to compete with the growing threat from India China and the Pacific Rim.
The growing wine industry, and not just in California, is one of the worst offenders of the use and abuse of illegal labor. They can hire, legally, for less than the minimum wage [there is a min. ag. rate] to work the fields. Then they bring them in to work the processes in the winery. Then they put them to work doing the construction of the winery it’s self. Welding s/s tanks for ten dollars an hour is just an example. These types of things are going on in manufacturing, construction and development and all sectors of our community.
Our young people can read the righting on the walls. They can see that there is not much future in these industries.
Corporate greed. The immigration problem will never get solved until the people that knowingly hire illegal immigrants pay for their crimes. Twelve INS agents for California with twelve million illegals tells me the government does not have the citizens best interest or welfare at heart.
I was making ten dollars an hour thirty three years ago welding carbon steel. I was offered to help weld s/s tanks for the same amount thirty three years later. The cost of living in California has sky rocketed in that time. The work going to illegals, is theft and it’s going on, on a massive scale.
If I hear that they are “just doing the work that Americans won’t do” one more time… well I have and I and my family have moved to New Zealand to try a country that might try harder to protect it’s citizen way of life instead of it’s corporate CEO’s bank accounts.
It is a breath of fresh air to see the there are others speaking out who have seen the same thing happening. The men that I know that came illegally to this country don’t speak the language. I’ve known them for a least ten years and they are difficult to understand and really have no intention of learning the language. It is not healthy or safe for America to have so many people that are not held to the same standard.
Many welders here in New Zealand have asked me why I would want to move out of the U.S. and why is it so hard to get into the U.S.. I answer both questions with one answer. My counry has been invaded and the american government won’t do anything effective to stop it.
February 9th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Visit the Pharr bridge in Texas. You will quickly see the difference between mexican processes and American processes.
February 23rd, 2008 at 8:36 am
i personally have not seen immigration to the extent the southern US has seen. here in western canada we do have some asian and european workers coming to work here. as far as i know, for the most part they are legal workers. One example i like. a friend of mine works in a prod/fab shop in a local city.the company brought in 10 european weldeers. they paid them $5/hr less than the other emmployees, in exchange for helping with housing,flights, etc. all the company employees thought that was reasonably fair.thats until the shop slowed down. now they have 10 local employees under a 2yr employment contract that hardly speek english. so they laid-off the top 10 wage earners that wernt managers. this all happened within 2 months.this all bit the company in the back side when theeuropean welders went to test for the canadian certifications. not one of them passed, even after 3 attempts. in a matter of 4 months the company hired 10 people they could barely communicate with, lost 10 skilled welders with needed certifications, and upset some of the local employees at the same time.they lost money and worker morale.LESSON LEARNED?????? i sure hope so!
March 4th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Read and write english and do your job as instructed. I owe you nothing . In America we work hard to have the things in life that make our life better. Welcome, the legal way.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
“Keep American wages low. Hire illegal.” With the trend that has been going on the past several years, everyone may as well buy this bumper sticker and advertise. The government is either blind or overly greedy. Speak up America.
May 6th, 2008 at 11:39 am
i dont think that it should matter whether you’re from America or not,i think that if you are a well-rounded and efficient welder you should get treated just like everyone else