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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    26

    Default Does serial number matter ?

    I posted thsi on the Hobart board but wonder what the Miller fellas think about this item ?

    I was looking for a torch repair the other day and the Linde fella took one look at my old torch (given to me by a friend before I started TIG welding) and told me to simply trash-can the torch and buy a new one. Well, when I tried to hook it up, I found that it had an open circuit in the electrical line to the torch and a broken fitting for the gas line.

    I tend to be suspicious of those kinds of salesmen and put up my guard. I asked him about a torch and he showed me a WeldCraft 20. Iím looking for a water cooled torch and he said that this one fit the bill - $125.

    Not knowing what the market is, I simply took literature and told him that Iím shopping and might be back. I went to another supplier and asked the same question. Same response and the price was $160. At this point I was wondering about marketing. So I simply got my gas bottle filled and went on.

    I have not found anything on the net so far that matches the $125 that Linde-man gave me; tho I did read something on ARC-ZONE that talked about low-balling for INcomplete setups that make you come back time after time until you have all the parts that you need to get your setup running. Linde-manís offering had the torch head with hoses. I would also need the collet, gas cup, tungsten and back cover. But then it would be weld-ready. Same extra needs from the $160 shop fella.

    So I was out and about today and happened to drive past the local Praxair joint. So I stopped in to ask about torches. I walked into the 'showroom' to find nobody there. Eventually, someone walked in from the back and kinda grunted out, he must be in back with a customer. (huh ?) After a few minutes a fella came out of the back and mumbled if he could help me. I 'splained that I am interested in a TIG torch setup. "You see, I have this old CyberTIG 300 and I want to get it running".

    He asked what brand is it ? (DUH) I was INSTANTANEOUSLY suspicious at that point.

    So I says HOBART. He said, I didnt recognize CyberTIG. He's kinda youngish, maybe in his 30's.

    So I said that I have the unit and need a torch for it. It's about 25 years old.

    Everything is kinda normal at that point until he asked me for the serial number to it. I told him that I didn't have it but didn't know that I needed a serial simply to buy a torch. He said that it's so old that Hobart might not support it. (huh ?)

    I told him that I didn't want a Hobart torch.

    He said that it didn't matter. He needed the serial number.

    I asked if a WeldCraft torch would work on it and he said that it MIGHT, but he needed the serial number to be sure. (Say what ?)

    At that point I told him that I didnt' want to waste my time and that I really didn't believe nor like his line of crap; I walked out.


    Who was wrong ? Was I wrong to disbelieve him ? Or was he absolutely full of sh8 ?

    Nowhere in the net supplierís order forms do they ask for your serial numbers. Neither was I asked for the serial at the 2 other local welding suppliers when I ax'd them about a torch for my ol' CyberTIG.

    RoGrrr

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    DFW area
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RoGrrr View Post
    At that point I told him that I didnt' want to waste my time and that I really didn't believe nor like his line of crap; I walked out.
    RoGrrr

    Most ongoing items get changed over the years, and some parts vary with minor design changes/improvements. Its normal to see a part and have it referenced, "Part # so-and-so for serial number such & such or higher", then "Part # so-and-so for serial number such & such or lower".



    But with your attitude, I wouldn't have been inclined to help you either.

    The 25 years I was in retail/wholesale selling of commercial stuff, I'd get a customer like that and think to myself, "How many thousands of dollars are we talking about here for me to have to listen to this obnoxious nonsense"?

    The longer I had to listen to nonsense or suffer a fool, the higher prices became.........
    Or it'd be-- 'No, we don't carry those,,,, and I don't know who does either'.


    Other folks,,,
    heck, I didn't mind digging and researching for a hour to get them a $4-5 part.
    They were pleasant and nice to talk to if I had the time, otherwise-
    I'd call and let them know if I'd found it, or if it was still available.



    "If you act like a a$$, don't be surprised when you get treated like crap".


    .
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 03-02-2007 at 10:02 PM.
    "Gone are the days of wooden ships, and Iron men.
    I doubt we'll see either of their likes again".

    Circa 1920.
    Author:
    Unknown US Coast Guard unit Commander.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    now in Orlando!!!!
    Posts
    559

    Default

    RoGrrr, I personally can not see why a serial number would matter, the only thing you need to know is the amps you want to run. The attach block may be a little different for you machine, but they are pretty much the same as far as I have expereinced, and I own 4 TIG machines. As far as all the little extras, they are pretty much consumables. You will wear out tungstens,cups,and break back caps,misplace collets, ect. So, IMHO, shop where they are not hindered by what is in the computer. It also helps to do yourself a favor and be somewhat educated on what you are looking for, and with the internet available, there is more info out there for free than ever before. But like Ed said, don't try to teach a pig to sing, you only waste your time and make him mad. It also helps to just smile while the frustration is making you boil, I know, earlier in life, I have just about come over the counter a couple of times with know it all sales people. Hope this makes sense and helps you out. Paul

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Paul

    Well, I kinda know what I want and am looking for the best packaging of it. I'll probably end up with a WeldCraft or CK torch. At this point I'm not sure which model, maybe a Crafter. Price is a concern, of course and if the LWS is close to what I can find on the net, I might go with him. I want some semblence of customer service. If the salesman remembers that I put some $$$$ in his pocket, that should get me some points. I've gotten some good deals after an initial retail dealing with a salesmen simply bcuz they wanted to keep me pleased. If that is how I'm treated, my next high dollar purchase will be from him.

    I doubt I'll go back to this particular Praxair dealer specifically bcuz of the nincompoop behind the counter. In fact, I might call there Monday and ask for the owner and discuss the situation with him. Customer stupid-service like that has no place in today's business. I had thought about getting in the salesman's face but I figured that it would be better to tell him in front of the other customer why I was leaving. I simply walked out and laughed about it on the way to my truck.

    Ed
    You say 'with my attitude....'
    Well, I simply respectfully asked for info on a tig torch. You might do well to reread my posting and take a minute to let it soak in. I don't want to get into a Pea'in contest with you even tho I dislike what you wrote to/about me. My atitude did not change until after he showed his a$$ to me. I closed the door on him by walking out. He may have lost future revenue from me. Who knows.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    now in Orlando!!!!
    Posts
    559

    Default

    RoGrrr, sounds like you got the right idea, I like to shop local, because when something jams up, you can depend on the local guy helping. And sometimes you will get freebies without even asking.....Keep on keepin on, Paul
    More Spark Today Please

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    it could well be he wanted the ser# to inshor he got the proper threading and size to conect to the hose you had if you just wanted the torch not the torch and cable compleat. things have schanged in 25 years and as such if he just said ok shore here is a 300amp tig torch for you , you take it home only to find out the treads are wrong or the conector is a femail insted of a mail. now you are pissed at him for giveing you the wrong torch right??? if he wanted the #'s it was likely to insure he got it right the first time insted of haveing to deal with a pissed off customer that couldnt weld all weekend cuz it was the wrong torch. i have a 300amp weldcraft watter cooled torch collecting dust on a shelf in my shop now, it has no collet and stuff for it just the torch and lines, so i'm guessing you could well have to order the inerds seperatly unless specified in the purchase. if you are concerned about $$ check out e-bay lots of low $$ torches on there if you look around.
    Last edited by fun4now; 03-03-2007 at 06:56 PM.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    DFW area
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RoGrrr View Post
    Paul

    Ed
    Pea'in contest with you even tho I dislike what you wrote to/about me. My atitude did not change until after he showed his a$$ to me. I closed the door on him by walking out. He may have lost future revenue from me. Who knows.
    I guess I did missunderstand it, and didn't reinterate my point very well.

    Most of these welding supply places normally just deal with a few huge commercial customers that have a bill running into the thousands of dollars every month. The walk-ins, or 'us' make up almost a microscopic percentage of thier sales.

    Sure, they'll try to fix ya up, but if someone gets belligerant with them, its just human nature to tune that person out. I've seen it happen over and over in the auto parts industry, and other commercial type businesses.

    Take care bro,
    I was just trying to show ya what its like on the other side of the counter sometimes.

    .
    "Gone are the days of wooden ships, and Iron men.
    I doubt we'll see either of their likes again".

    Circa 1920.
    Author:
    Unknown US Coast Guard unit Commander.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Ed

    I'm glad to see you're open-minded to a rational discussion. I read and reread your initial response then banged out one whale of a zinger to you. Let it sit for a while and decided to edit it a bit. And then some more. Then I decided that this board is not like CBRadio or usenet and wrote another reposnse which is what I posted. In the end I subtly let you know my chagrin with your posting and then we can shake hands and be friends, I bear you no animosity. I, too, have spent many years in and around retailing and servicing of one type or another and know all too well some of the fine upstanding jerks we have do deal with. I've played all the games you mentioned. And then some.... Oh, well. Hopefully, there won't be too many more of those types in my future. (yeah, right. When pigs fly)
    Anyway, in a couple weeks I'll be starting a TIG course at the local adult college and will have a chance to ask the instructor lots of questions and put my hands on some varied equipment and see for myself. I'm sure that some of the LWS's have a welding bench on which they do repairs and maybe even demos. I'm going to talk to them some more. One of them might have 'a brass ring' and just might score a sale.

    As far as sales to the general pubic, the salesmen have to realize that some of the buyers for the mega-conglomerates have the same hobbies as we do. If they do, they tend to lean towards what/who they know to be user-friendly. If they get stiffed or if they see some ignorant customer (by that I mean the customer simply does not know any better bcuz he hasn't the experience) get stiffed, they just might steer away from that supplier. Human nature, you know. Even if some obnoxious know-it-all a--hole comes in and the salesman gets uppity wif him in return, the corporate buyer might have second thoughts about laying a large purchase contract down there.

    I've been subject to the heinous 6@!hole salesman who cut a one-inch long piece of tubing so I could check the size befor I committed to several feet of it when I was repairing a car. Not unheard of. However, he quite arrogantly charged me for a foot of it. I asked him why, and why he didn't simply hand me tha sample and bid me a good day. He proudly stated that we ahve to charge for ALL sales. I suspect he was in a bad mood and decided to take it out on the next poor soul who walked in the door - me. What he didn't know is that I personally knew the president of the corporation his store was one of. I didn't talk to the manager of that particular store; I went to my friend and told him the story. We laughed about it and he said that he would take care of it. The next time I shopped at that autoparts store, I noticed that 'jerry' wasn't at the counter and I asked Hank if he was off that day. He said, Nah, MISTER Evans called me last nite and told me to hand him his FINAL PAYCHECK as soon as he reports to work. Hank told me that he had been seeing some of jerry's attitude problems recently and even when he talked with him about it, jerry didn't completely clean it up. He's looking for a job somewhere else now.

    So an attitude in business can bite your fingers off.

    I've seen %@&hole customers get put in their place by a sharp salesman who simply told them that he didn't appreciate his attitude and if he wanted ANY type of service at his counter, he should change his attitude or simply leave. One even told the customer that "I am the only one of these within 70 miles (farm implement store) who has this particular part (John Deere) and if you want to buy it here, you need to change your attitude". The customer swallowed hard, sheepishly paid and walked out.

    Hope we have much information and laughs we can share on this board.

    Peace
    RoGrrr

    Quote Originally Posted by Winger Ed. View Post
    I guess I did missunderstand it, and didn't reinterate my point very well.

    Most of these welding supply places normally just deal with a few huge commercial customers that have a bill running into the thousands of dollars every month. The walk-ins, or 'us' make up almost a microscopic percentage of thier sales.

    Sure, they'll try to fix ya up, but if someone gets belligerant with them, its just human nature to tune that person out. I've seen it happen over and over in the auto parts industry, and other commercial type businesses.

    Take care bro,
    I was just trying to show ya what its like on the other side of the counter sometimes.

    .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Just wanted to let you know that I have a 1976 Hobart Cybertig 300. I use a WP-20 Weldcraft watercooled torch. It's just an off-the-shelf torch, no need for serial number matchup etc etc. However when I had to replace my power cable, It got a little more specific because of the connector on the machine side and the connector on the torch side. But the first local welding shop I hit had the cable right off the shelf so it wasn't something that was exotic. It wasn't anything specific about the cybertig, but rather I had to make sure I got the right cable for my torch.
    If you can find a local place that treats you right than that's nice, however my retail experience over the last few years has been for the birds. I buy almost all my consumables/torch parts (as well as a lot of other things) off EBAY. All genuine Weldcraft parts and all new. EBAY isn't just used stuff anymore. I'm sick of being treated like crap AND paying retail prices. I save a lot of money buying off EBAY and eventually retail environments will realize what they're losing to the online market place and start improving customer service.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lake of the Ozarks MO
    Posts
    3,583

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swamper8 View Post
    Just wanted to let you know that I have a 1976 Hobart Cybertig 300. I use a WP-20 Weldcraft watercooled torch. It's just an off-the-shelf torch, no need for serial number matchup etc etc. However when I had to replace my power cable, It got a little more specific because of the connector on the machine side and the connector on the torch side. But the first local welding shop I hit had the cable right off the shelf so it wasn't something that was exotic. It wasn't anything specific about the cybertig, but rather I had to make sure I got the right cable for my torch.
    If you can find a local place that treats you right than that's nice, however my retail experience over the last few years has been for the birds. I buy almost all my consumables/torch parts (as well as a lot of other things) off EBAY. All genuine Weldcraft parts and all new. EBAY isn't just used stuff anymore. I'm sick of being treated like crap AND paying retail prices. I save a lot of money buying off EBAY and eventually retail environments will realize what they're losing to the online market place and start improving customer service.

    I doubt it....new counterpeople are not welding enthusists and have not been exposed to enuff machines to know anything. There training isn't even close to the bad auto part's people we have grown to hate and most of them have passed ASE training But they still have to supply their employees with all the benefits that is normal like insurance etc... and still turn a profit on everything within the price guidelines set by their warehouse/supplier.
    They go into factories and big job shops and compete with each other. they know what it takes to get those accounts.
    Those old machines and their once in a while owners are a pain in the @$$ to them. After you leave they talk about how stupid they were. I know cause I hang out at the LWS sometimes for an hr or 2 and when the customer leaves try to explain to them how they messed up. I am starting to get thru to them and quite often now get calls from them or referred by them about sales that they just don't know the answers to. Kinda flattering but it would be nicer if they would just learn their stupid jobs as much as I give a crap!!!

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