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Thread: Newbie question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    11

    Default Newbie question

    I have been welding for a little while now( I have a HH 187). I have a question about penetration of the metal. I have been using 1/8" steel and practising welding pieces together. The pieces are butted. I am not sure how far the weld should penetrate. When I weld, should the steel pieces be butted tightly together? It seems to only go about 1/4 the way through. I have the settings correct as to the manual. I get a large bead on top. I am keeping the wire about 3/8" extended when I weld, about a 15 deg angle. I drag, not push.How deep should the penetration be? Should it be comletely through? What speed should I be moving at?(inches per minute).
    Hobart Handler 187 MIG

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    collinsville, ok
    Posts
    86

    Default

    put a 3/32 gap betwen the pieces. 1/8 is thin enough that this should work if you are running hot enough. if not, put a bevel on them.

  3. #3

    Talking

    I Checked out the HH 187 rating and on the high setting you should be able to burn through 1/8 steel so I suggest beveling the edges of the steel a little and turning up the heat some so that the back side glows red while welding. Do a slight weave from side to side while welding. Sometimes the recommended setting don't always work so don't be affraid to turn up the heat when the penatration doesn't look right.

    I play around allot turning the heat up and down on different welding project trying to get the best weld and penatration I can. Play with your welder and learn what it is capibable of have have some fun doing it.
    Little Fabrication

    Miller DVI2
    Miller Dialarc 250 AC/DC
    Thermodynamics cutmaster 38
    HF 130 tig

    Third Class Power Engineer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    11

    Default

    So putting a gap between the pieces-is that called an open root?
    Hobart Handler 187 MIG

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    11

    Default

    I found this website. It answers most of my questions.
    http://64.78.42.182/sweethaven/BldgConst/Welding/
    Thanks for the info, Matt.
    Hobart Handler 187 MIG

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Farmington, OH
    Posts
    746

    Default

    mattf,

    You never stated what wire diameter you're using or what shielding gas you're using. In our shop we generally use Co2 for a shielding gas and most times have decent penetration and will run all positions well. However there are times when we weld on heavier material or need better penetration and will use an Argon Co2 mix. I have a smaller MIG at home and I run an 80/20 (80% Argon 20% Co2) mix with it to compensate for it's lack of amperage and it works pretty well, I also run 80/20 on my larger MIG and love the results. They have another shielding gas that's supposed to work well with the smaller machines and is referred to as Stargon it has some oxygen mixed into it as well, it's actually a tri-mix and the Praxair dealer recommends it for all the welders 250 amps and under. I've never used it myself but I do know they sell a lot of it.

    As far as your joints go anytime you need full penetration when welding MIG or SMAW (stick) it's always a good idea to have a gap between your parts uness it's some really thin guage sheet metal. On 1/8" material I don't know that you'd necessarily have to go with a 3/32 gap to get full penetration. I usually gap my parts the distance equal to the diameter of the rod/wire I will use to make the root pass with.

    As with anything practice makes perfect so don't be afraid to experiment a bit. You should be able to pick up plenty of small pieces to practice on out of the scrap hopper at just about any fabricating shop for little to nothing (we give it away to guys like you), 2" x 4" coupons will make perfect practice pieces and shouldn't cost much.

    Good luck
    Blondie

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Do I need full penetration to make the joint strong? I am using argon/co2 with .030 wire. I want to know how much penetration, let's say on 1/8", to have a strong piece.
    Hobart Handler 187 MIG

  8. #8

    Default

    Full penetration is your strongest welds. I normally only bevel the edges to 45 degrees and butt the bottom of the bevel together on 1/8 steel. As the post above answered some good questions you should be able to play around and get what your are looking for. The welder you have is plenty big for 1/8, I think the specs showed 5/16 for its max thickness specs which can be increased with welding proceedure and practice. with your gas and 0.30 wire you should be set for 1/8.

    Just crank up the heat a little and play with it. change the wire speed so that you get a good bead going at the heat setting you select. playing with the machine setting and seeing your results is half the fun when welding.
    Little Fabrication

    Miller DVI2
    Miller Dialarc 250 AC/DC
    Thermodynamics cutmaster 38
    HF 130 tig

    Third Class Power Engineer

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    11

    Default

    So even if I am welding a couple of 2' pieces together I should bevel them along the whole length? Or will a small gap do the same thing?
    Hobart Handler 187 MIG

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Farmington, OH
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mattf View Post
    So even if I am welding a couple of 2' pieces together I should bevel them along the whole length? Or will a small gap do the same thing?
    If you can get enough heat to penetrate with a gap that should be fine, if not you'll have to bevel the entire length.

    Welding isn't something you learn overnight, you'll have to experiment with your machine to get the right settings each machine will be different. You'll also have to experiment with your technique as well, try pushing the puddle rather than pulling it, play with travel speeds and circular motion and weave. You'll get the hang of it, just as no two welding machines are exactly the same neither are weldors, everyone develops his/her own technique. Be patient, don't give up and above all practice, practice, practice!

    Good luck
    Blondie

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