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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Mpls, MN
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    1,790

    Default I'm not complaining, but this is an honest question

    Why is it the pulser board costs half what the sequencer does for the Sync 250's?

    There's only two less controls on it...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Paradise, Ca
    Posts
    131

    Default

    I'd guess it's because the pulser is simply an on/off switch with a timer. The sequencer has to ramp the amperage.

    Then again, I'd be reduced to tears if I had to build a circuit board to control a lightbulb.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Mpls, MN
    Posts
    1,790

    Default

    Nope. They're just two circuit boards that plug into the already fully capable main brain of the welder. Nothing more to it than adding the controls to the front panel.

    I was reading up on these in old threads and someone said they weren't pots, but rather rotary encoders (I can't confirm that yet via the part numbers on them, but it's not looking probable). If that's the case, then some designer in Appleton has their head up their rear to be using a $40 part in a $2 application. After all, the amptrols are nothing more than a plastic box with a pot and a momentary switch inside them. There's no need to have 270 pulses when you could resolve a resistance signal with far less difficulty or expense.

    I got my machine with just under 2 hours on it, and the original owner bought the pulser board, but there's still a pretty good deal of sticker shock when you pay nearly $300 for what I pictured. However, 10% of my purchase price isn't so bad for completing the machines features.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    deep in the suburban jungle
    Posts
    125

    Default I'll take 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishy Jim
    Nope. They're just two circuit boards that plug into the already fully capable main brain of the welder. Nothing more to it than adding the controls to the front panel.

    I was reading up on these in old threads and someone said they weren't pots, but rather rotary encoders (I can't confirm that yet via the part numbers on them, but it's not looking probable). If that's the case, then some designer in Appleton has their head up their rear to be using a $40 part in a $2 application. After all, the amptrols are nothing more than a plastic box with a pot and a momentary switch inside them. There's no need to have 270 pulses when you could resolve a resistance signal with far less difficulty or expense.

    I got my machine with just under 2 hours on it, and the original owner bought the pulser board, but there's still a pretty good deal of sticker shock when you pay nearly $300 for what I pictured. However, 10% of my purchase price isn't so bad for completing the machines features.
    Sounds simple enough to duplicate. I'll look forward to the "Fishy Jim" model hitting the market soon. I'm hoping that with your healthy (and deserved) profit margin included, the price will be $29 or less. I'd like one of each unit, please.


    JD

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Mpls, MN
    Posts
    1,790

    Default

    Nope. I'm not duplicating anything. I also didn't take pics of the back side of the board, so don't bother asking for them (general statement, not directed at anyone).

    If these are in fact pots, $30 would be about right for a fat margin and very happy customers.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    650

    Default

    Those don't look like any pots I have ever seen. If they don't have any stops I suspect the rotary encoder idea to be correct.
    Dennis


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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Mpls, MN
    Posts
    1,790

    Default

    They have stops. Probably very close to a standard 270 degree range of motion. Had I been thinking more about this at the time I was installing it, I should've ohmed them with the multimeter to see what they did.

    The sequencer functions actually turn on and off at the CCW end of range - the pulser can remain set up and engaged or disengaged via the momentary switch.

    The cover is back on and it'll stay that way. I was just hoping someone in Appleton would chime in and explain the logic (other than pure profits) of selling machine functions in add-on boards which don't justify their parts expense. After all, we already bought the welder which included the functions of the controllers. Andy's only comment I could find on the subject in past threads was that of voiding the warranty. That tells me its about the profits of selling a reduced capacity rig to then get a higher margin on the add-ons. Not exactly the "class" I used to see Miller as having.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma Indian Land
    Posts
    23

    Thumbs down

    If all your suspicions are correct it is very disappointing to me also. I expect a reasonable profit but don't kill the messenger in the process.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    122

    Default Value added

    Jim, Look at it from annother angle. It's not so much as the cost of the add-on components, but the value those compnents add to the machine. Suppose you design a machine that does "X". By adding a inexpensive part to the machine, it now does "X" and "Y". Add annother cheap component and now the machine does "X", "Y", and "Z". The value to the end user is not the cost of the compnent, but what it makes the machine capable of.
    I work in an industry where two of the exact same machine come off the same assembly line. One machine is 90 HP and the other is 115HP, the only difference between the two is, software and a decal. Does the cost of a decal and different software justify a $650 difference in price? To the end user that needs 25 more horsepower, it does. If it adds value to you, as a user, than the actual cost of the material required to give you that added value is irelavent (sp). Just annother way to look at it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    2,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rmack898
    Jim, Look at it from annother angle. It's not so much as the cost of the add-on components, but the value those compnents add to the machine. Suppose you design a machine that does "X". By adding a inexpensive part to the machine, it now does "X" and "Y". Add annother cheap component and now the machine does "X", "Y", and "Z". The value to the end user is not the cost of the compnent, but what it makes the machine capable of.
    I work in an industry where two of the exact same machine come off the same assembly line. One machine is 90 HP and the other is 115HP, the only difference between the two is, software and a decal. Does the cost of a decal and different software justify a $650 difference in price? To the end user that needs 25 more horsepower, it does. If it adds value to you, as a user, than the actual cost of the material required to give you that added value is irelavent (sp). Just annother way to look at it.
    Very well put Mac.
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