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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    9

    Default Another Newbie w/question

    Although I have been doing stick for years and even done some underwater welding when I worked as a commercial diver , I am a newbie to MIG. I am currently in a steep learning curve.

    Looking to possibly buy the MM 180 but after doing the research I have a concern. I am curious about why when Miller came out with the 180 the wire
    speed changed so dramatically
    MM175 20-700 IPM
    MM180 90-700 IPM

    I would like a versatile machine that is capable of welding thicker material, but my primary focus, and the majority of it's use will be doing body work with 1/16" steel so my concern is over the wire feed speed. At some point there must have been need for a speed as slow as 20 IPM as that is still the norm on all of the other machines ( both smaller and larger than the 180)

    I have spoken with one welder from a Miller "authorized dealers" and he seemed to feel that 90 IPM would be too fast and would burn through light steel.

    I know that this is going to be a stupid question but does anyone have an opinion on this issue?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    1,788

    Default

    I doubt that burn thru would be a problem on 16ga if the proper procedures are used of course, esp. with C25 and .030 wire. As an option I would take a very good look at the new Hobart Handler 187 before buying that MM180. That is of course if a tapped mig will work for you.
    Last edited by Sundown; 12-28-2006 at 05:26 PM.
    Regards, George

    Hobart Handler 210 w/DP3035 - Great 240V small Mig
    Hobart Handler 140 - Great 120V Mig
    Hobart Handler EZ125 - IMO the best 120V Flux Core only machine

    Miller Dynasty 200DX with cooler of my design, works for me
    Miller Spectrum 375 - Nice Cutter

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    843

    Default

    I've logged a a fair amount of arc time in on a MM 180, and with an .023 wire and C-25 shielding gas, the unit is quite capable of handling sheet metal down to 22 ga., and probably even a little thinner yet. However, 22 ga. was the thinnest material I had available to me at the time.

    I also own one of the Hobart Handler 187's that Sundown mentioned. I personally feel the HH 187 is a little better performing unit then the MM 180 on 22 ga. It has nothing to do with the fact that the HH 187 is capable of feeding a lower IPM of wire, because to weld this thinner material both are feeding about the same IPM of wire. My reason for feeling the HH 187 perfroms better has to do with arc charateristics and weld puddle wetout. In both areas, the HH 187 is slightly better. Don't get me wrong the MM 180 is still a good unit for this application. I just like the HH 187 a little better.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    9

    Default Ipm

    So I would not need slower than 90 IPM to weld on 22 gauge?

    What accounts for the beter arc handling characteristics on the HH187 ( which was my first choice.)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    843

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BeZe View Post
    So I would not need slower than 90 IPM to weld on 22 gauge?

    What accounts for the beter arc handling characteristics on the HH187 ( which was my first choice.)
    On 22 ga., with either the MM 180 or HH 187, I am able to run 2" long stringer beads on a tight fit up butt joint, without blowing through. Of course I wouldn't run this long of bead in actual use. I was just testing the units capabilities at the time.

    .023 is a fairly fine wire. At 90 IPM with an .023 wire you're going to be below the rated 30 amp low end output of the MM 180.

    The design of the choke (arc stabilizer) influences the arc charateristics and weld puddle wet out.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bertram TX
    Posts
    157

    Default Miller is ALWAYS the right choice

    If I'm correct, doesn't the MM180 have an automatic wire speed function so you set the votage and the wire speed adjusts itself? The Hobart has 6 or 7 preset voltage settings? ALSO....when you get that far down on the voltage/wirespeed are you getting into the globular transfer range? Anyhoo...food for thought.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    1,788

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aircraft Welder View Post
    If I'm correct, doesn't the MM180 have an automatic wire speed function so you set the votage and the wire speed adjusts itself? The Hobart has 6 or 7 preset voltage settings? ALSO....when you get that far down on the voltage/wirespeed are you getting into the globular transfer range? Anyhoo...food for thought.
    The auto-set I believe you are refering to is only on the MM140 auto-set model. The MM180 comes with wire speed tracking which is turned off at delivery and can be turned on if you want to use it. Also you get into globular transfer after passing through short arc on the way to spray. The HH187 has 7 taps, which will give you plenty of range to do any thickness it's rated for.
    Regards, George

    Hobart Handler 210 w/DP3035 - Great 240V small Mig
    Hobart Handler 140 - Great 120V Mig
    Hobart Handler EZ125 - IMO the best 120V Flux Core only machine

    Miller Dynasty 200DX with cooler of my design, works for me
    Miller Spectrum 375 - Nice Cutter

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    DFW area
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BeZe View Post
    Although I have been doing stick for years and even done some underwater welding when I worked as a commercial diver ,

    I am a newbie to MIG.

    After you get setteled in here,

    Would you be so kind as to tell a little of underwater welding, and how its done?

    Not that I, or many others here would ever do it, but its just fasinating.

    The closest I ever came to learning of it was talking to a oil rig (dry suit)diver/welder once that only told of being 'harrased' by sharks....
    At least until he struck a arc and they sort of twitched a bit, and fell away towards the seabed....

    ..

    Don't worry about learning to MIG. If you're smart enough to feed yourself, and can walk & chew gum at the same time---- you can learn how to MIG.

    And the rule of thumb for MIG machines is:
    The cheaper ones with regulators to dispense shielding gas do thin stuff, and up to about 1/4"--- glueing something together that thick, they drop to about a 20-30 % duty cycle. The more and more expensive (220volt)ones progress on up through thicker materials with longer and longer duty cycles.

    If all you need it for is 1/16th sheet- any of the higher end 120 volt machines with a gas regulator, and running .020 wire should do great for ya.

    ..
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 01-01-2007 at 03:56 AM.
    "Gone are the days of wooden ships, and Iron men.
    I doubt we'll see either of their likes again".

    Circa 1920.
    Author:
    Unknown US Coast Guard unit Commander.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lake of the Ozarks MO
    Posts
    3,588

    Default

    Don't even think about it....get the biggest one you can afford. An expireinced welder such as youself will only scoff at the little ones after time.
    I own a lincoln 135-plus and in my opinion it is a home hobbiest toy. I have took it out and made as much as $75 an hr with it running it of my Bobcat but the truth is I would have been better off using my spoolgun...I'm just hardheaded and wanted to use it. It does a fine job for what it was made for.
    If you have been an underwater welder then you are prolly a profesional and never really would be happy with the smaller machine unless 110v is a requirement that you need. It is better to have and not need than need and not have!! The bigger machines will do the thin stuff just fine but not the other way around. I would go as far as to tell you a man of your caliber should ask around in your circles and LWS about a good used machine, possibly a trade-in. The smallest thing on my list would be a MM210 or equivilent. It always amazes me to see pro-guys with little welders and noobies that start out on the big expensive machines.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    DFW area
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FusionKing View Post
    I own a lincoln 135-plus and in my opinion it is a home hobbiest toy..

    I've got one of the old Linc. 100s.
    Compared to a 220 volt rig, its does look like a toy now that you mention it.

    But it sure is handy to just drag it around for some little project or another and doing a little 'bodywork' on a car.

    After using it some, it didn't take long for me to need/get a bigger machine. But the little rascal still has a warm place in my heart for the 'small stuff' I seem to find myself doing so much of.

    .
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 01-01-2007 at 06:40 PM.
    "Gone are the days of wooden ships, and Iron men.
    I doubt we'll see either of their likes again".

    Circa 1920.
    Author:
    Unknown US Coast Guard unit Commander.

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