Miller Electric

Welding Discussion Forums

Home » Resources » Communities » Welding Discussion Forums
 
Miller Welding Discussion Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    3

    Default 230 volt outlet for maxstar 150stl

    Hello everyone, I have been reading threads on this forum for a couple of weeks and done alot of research on inverter welders. I have decided on the miller maxstar 150stl tig/stick combo package.Will be using it for home projects in stick and tig modes. I do have some questions. My 230 volt 30 amp plug in the garage is a 3 prong not 4 prong which means it doesnt have a separate ground wire, only 2 hot wires and a neutral. Any one else using a 3 pronge 230 volt for their welders? Most of my tig work will be on mild steel and stainless steel, should I be using straight argon?
    Thanks to all who respond, Im sure I will have more questions in the near future.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Clark County, NV
    Posts
    2,696

    Default

    Is this a dryer receptacle? If so, it's dedicated from the main panel, right, not a subpanel?

    In your main panel the neutral and ground busses are bonded together.

    I would go ahead and use it, making an adapter to go from your Maxstar to the dryer receptacle, putting the ground into the neutral prong. This way you don't have to alter any wiring in the wall.

    Excellent choice in machine; let us know how you like it, or if there is something different than the conditions I've described with your wiring.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Clark County, NV
    Posts
    2,696

    Default

    Oh, and yes, use pure argon for TIG on just about everything, unless you need the extra oomph from an expensive Helium blend...

    And yes, I powered my MM175, my PowCon 300SM, my Spectrum 375, my air compressor, and my Maxstar 140 STR all from from a 3-prong dryer receptacle for a year, none at the same time of course.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    131

    Default 2 hots and a GROUND

    You have 2 hots and a ground for 230/240 1 phase.
    Grounds and neutrals are not the same thing, do not inter-change them.
    With the circuit off open the cover and check the wire color and check where it is landed in your panel. If is it white and landed in the main panel on the neutral bus then it is a neutral.......If it is green or bare copper and landed on the ground bar in the main panel it is a ground................
    If it was done correctly...Only check this if you feel comfortable doing so...if not hire an electrician that knows what they are doing.
    sstec

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    In a main panel it wouldnt make any difference, in a sub it will.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    1,788

    Default

    Welcome & congrats on your new 150 STL, I had one for over a year and loved it. I recently traded up to a 150 STH and it's just that much better.
    Regards, George

    Hobart Handler 210 w/DP3035 - Great 240V small Mig
    Hobart Handler 140 - Great 120V Mig
    Hobart Handler EZ125 - IMO the best 120V Flux Core only machine

    Miller Dynasty 200DX with cooler of my design, works for me
    Miller Spectrum 375 - Nice Cutter

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Clark County, NV
    Posts
    2,696

    Default

    A three-wire dryer receptacle really is two hots and a neutral. The ground is bonded to the neutral at the dryer and in the main panel. Of course, this is why the new system is a 4-wire plug and receptacle.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    131

    Default Mac702

    Not trying to get under your skin.............
    But "WE" have no way of knowing what "he" has in place....
    What you or I do at home is not the case. I wired my house when I built it, not his. I have owned homes that I was not there when it was wired and have found some very interesting stuff as well as illegal, most signed off by the local building inspector.
    I will agree all neutrals should be bonded at the main panel.
    But I can not recomend a neutral being used as a ground in the field ! ! !
    We have no idea who or what has been tied to that neutral and if we use it as a ground for this circuit, we could have voltage on a ground, and have it feed back on this circuit..... NOT GOOD = ZAPPP

    Just as an example, how many people posting here are having issues with GFI's? ? ?
    Most if not all are because of ground, neutral issues.

    All I can say is we only know what we know, what "they" tell us........
    If everyone knew everything "we" needed to know to figure it out, they for the most part would not be asking.

    I say all of this with the utmost respect to your knowledge. I have read a lot of your post and replies and have always agreed with them....except this one.

    sstec

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    "Just as an example, how many people posting here are having issues with GFI's? ? ?
    Most if not all are because of ground, neutral issues."
    Please elaborate on this. As for grounding a 230V circuit it MUST end up back on neutral at the main panel, this is grounding for this circuit. It is bonded to ground at this point, you dont even need an equipment ground bar in a main panel, the only real reason to have one is if there are not enough spaces for wire terminations on the neutral bar. If the main was not bonded to ground for some reason an equipment bar would be almost useless, a ground rod to earth will not pass enough current to clear a fault, I forget the % but the circuit for ground needs to be able to pass 600% (maybe Hank or Mac can elaborate) for X amount of time to allow for a breaker to trip. (simplified) an earth ground is never to be used as a sole grounding means.
    I agree, he should tell us the source for this circuit, main or sub and how many wires are feeding this sub.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    131

    Default not to hyjack this thread

    Mac recently gave a great explanation of how GFI’s work.

    The neutral and ground should only be bonded at the main panel, that is the only place, not at a sub panel or J-boxes in the field.

    When I have seen issues with tripping GFI’s that was not because of faulty appliance, it has been due to somebody crossing a neutral from another circuit in the field, i.e. a neutral is a neutral, white is white type of thinking. Take that one step further and since the neutral and the ground should be bonded at the panel, then what is the difference between a ground and a neutral?
    This is the way most people think, that I have dealt with.
    Next, somebody decides they are going to wire something themselves, great, now they unhook a bundle of grounds all nutted together because it’s just a ground and “can’t be hot” line of thinking and ZAP……….
    Grounding is just another example, people start adding grounds because they think that more and bigger are better, but the main, best ground needs to be at the panel and all grounds coming back to this point via wire, not water pipes. Stray voltage will always take the course of least resistance and if it’s the water pipe because it has less resistance and you are taking the pipes a part and your left hand is on one side and your right hand is on the other, you become the link………..

    When posts come up from people who can’t hook up the plug on their new welder, it scares the **** out of me. The manual is very clear (after all the attorneys get done).
    They should IMO get somebody to come over and help them, electrician or someone who is confident in their ability, not just anybody responding to their post, myself included.

    I’m not trashing anybody here, just seen enough smoke let out to know better.
    sstec

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Function split() is deprecated in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/footer.inc.php on line 82

Welding Projects

Special Offers: See the latest Miller deals and promotions.