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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default First beginner welds with Dynasty 200DX

    I just made two welds today with my new Dynasty 200DX, and would really appreciate some feedback from folks that recognize the various flaws and what causes them. These are my first welds of any type in about 20 years, and I never really learned to weld properly back then. I have read quite a bit on welding since then, but have not begun to practice until now. I am attaching photos below of the two pieces of 1/8" thick bar stock that I butt welded. All I did was wipe them down with alcohol and a paper towel before I started welding, so I realize that they weren't as clean as they should be.

    I used a 3/32 tungsten, standard collet / body, #7 nozzle, 15 cfm gas. I started with 90 amps, but could tell that this didn't really penetrate very well, so then I cranked it up to 105, and then later to 115. For the 115 (second photo), I made the complete pass without stopping.

    Any/all constructive feedback appreciated!

    At 90 and 105 amps.jpgAt 115 amps.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    23

    Default

    The most important things that should be happening are being disregarded, therefore they are poor welds unfortunately. From the pictures one can tell that you are either dipping the tungsten or losing shielding gas coverage (which could be due to various reasons) based on the orange/brown smut around the weld bead. You are trying to weld mill-scale covered steel, which is the worst possible start because mill scale is a form of contamination, as we all know contamination in a weld is to be minimized at all costs whenever possible.

    Hint #1: Get into the habit of grinding the steel down to shiny bare metal, which requires a grinding wheel or a flap disk with a coarse grit. Fine grits and/or wire wheels only polish the mill-scale, so they are not sufficient.

    Hint#2: Stop when you contaminate the tungsten by dipping it and/or lose shielding gas coverage. Both cause contamination of the tungsten. Stop and use a freshly sharpened tungsten and clean the weld bead if needed.

    Hint #3: Focus on using proper torch angle and arc length. This will simultaneously help with shielding gas coverage and heat input/penetration.
    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
    Eastwood MIG175 w/spoolgun
    Eastwood Versacut40 Plasma cutter

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,152

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by sjorlin View Post
    I just made two welds today with my new Dynasty 200DX, and would really appreciate some feedback from folks that recognize the various flaws and what causes them. These are my first welds of any type in about 20 years, and I never really learned to weld properly back then. I have read quite a bit on welding since then, but have not begun to practice until now. I am attaching photos below of the two pieces of 1/8" thick bar stock that I butt welded. All I did was wipe them down with alcohol and a paper towel before I started welding, so I realize that they weren't as clean as they should be.

    I used a 3/32 tungsten, standard collet / body, #7 nozzle, 15 cfm CFH Cubic Feet per Hour..gas. I started with 90 amps, but could tell that this didn't really penetrate very well, so then I cranked it up to 105, and then later to 115. For the 115 (second photo), I made the complete pass without stopping.

    Any/all constructive feedback appreciated!

    At 90 and 105 amps.jpgAt 115 amps.jpg
    A Good Start..!!

    You will develop the torch control and rythm over time...

    the more you practice... the better you will get...

    ALSO... in TIG... Cleanliness is critical.... clean shiny metal..

    here is a short booklet with TIG guidelines...

    http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/gtawbook.pdf

    Here are a couple of troubleshooting aids..

    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...-guide-graphic

    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...eshooting.html

    OH YEA.... and... Welcome Aboard...

    And excellent choice of welder... you will LOVE that Dynasyt 200 once you get used to it...
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    The most important things that should be happening are being disregarded, therefore they are poor welds unfortunately. From the pictures one can tell that you are either dipping the tungsten or losing shielding gas coverage (which could be due to various reasons) based on the orange/brown smut around the weld bead. You are trying to weld mill-scale covered steel, which is the worst possible start because mill scale is a form of contamination, as we all know contamination in a weld is to be minimized at all costs whenever possible.

    Hint #1: Get into the habit of grinding the steel down to shiny bare metal, which requires a grinding wheel or a flap disk with a coarse grit. Fine grits and/or wire wheels only polish the mill-scale, so they are not sufficient.

    Hint#2: Stop when you contaminate the tungsten by dipping it and/or lose shielding gas coverage. Both cause contamination of the tungsten. Stop and use a freshly sharpened tungsten and clean the weld bead if needed.

    Hint #3: Focus on using proper torch angle and arc length. This will simultaneously help with shielding gas coverage and heat input/penetration.
    So they are decorative-grade welds in the ugly class?
    Yes, I was a bit anxious, and knew that I should have cleaned / prepared the
    surfaces. I don't know how you can determine how much of the weld
    imperfection was lack of surface prep / cleanliness vs. loss of gas coverage though. I was using 15 cfh, a #7 nozzle, and very little electrode protrusion. Should I have been using a larger nozzle or higher flow for something like this?

    Incidentally, on the first photo, after making about 4 separate passes, when I was done the Tungsten tip looked identical to after I ground it, so I am confident that I didn't dip it. After the second photo, the pass at 115 amps, the tip did get contaminated. I didn't think that I had dipped it, and wonder if maybe the puddle splashed / sprayed it at some point. Maybe it got too
    close?

    ALSO... in TIG... Cleanliness is critical.... clean shiny metal..

    here is a short booklet with TIG guidelines...

    http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/gtawbook.pdf

    Here are a couple of troubleshooting aids..

    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...-guide-graphic

    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...eshooting.html
    Thank you. You reminded me that I actually have a hard copy of the gtawbook by Miller, and now is time to read it more thoroughly! I'll check out the other links too.

    So now I want to start building a small stand for a wine fridge out of 1.5" x .063" stainless box tubing. What I read in the HPBooks welder's handbook is that I need to purge the back-side of stainless with argon gas to prevent crystallization which would weaken the weld and base metal. Is this really necessary for something more decorative which will be very lightly loaded? How badly does the crystallization affect the strength? Enough to break it by hand? If so, I guess I'll have to get a different flow regulator, or another argon gas bottle and regulator.

    Steve

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,152

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sjorlin View Post

    So now I want to start building a small stand for a wine fridge out of 1.5" x .063" stainless box tubing. What I read in the HPBooks welder's handbook is that I need to purge the back-side of stainless with argon gas to prevent crystallization which would weaken the weld and base metal. Is this really necessary for something more decorative which will be very lightly loaded? How badly does the crystallization affect the strength? Enough to break it by hand? If so, I guess I'll have to get a different flow regulator, or another argon gas bottle and regulator.

    Steve
    I would NOT worry about backpurge for that project....

    But I would plan on spending MANY hours practicing and gaining technique before I tried to weld on the new stainless for your rack...

    Please do not make the mistake of trying to do OJT on projects that matter... figuring that you would "pick it up on the way".....
    Aint happening..... it takes time to develop the skill...

    get your technique and "speed" down first.. so your welds are aesthetically pleasing as well as having a very narrow HAZ .... so you do not cook the base metal...

    There are many threads here on stainless TIG... plus lots of videos on youtube... it is worth your while to spend the time to research them...
    Last edited by H80N; 07-05-2014 at 08:24 AM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Yea don't worry about back purging for a decorative project that doesn't have to support heavy weight. Even then, with a fully sugar'ed inside, you will still have gotten ~70% penetration, which is plenty strong. If you want to be on the safe side without having to purge, get some SolarFlux B. Works great in applications that allow such a procedure. Weldingsupply.com has the 1lb can for $37.99 and that will last a heck of a long time. I'm actually quite surprised it hasn't gone up in price since I bought mine about 2 years ago. Usually inflation catches everything in it's path. **** I think I will buy a few more cans now at today's prices before they realize they forgot to raise the price on it! lol
    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
    Eastwood MIG175 w/spoolgun
    Eastwood Versacut40 Plasma cutter

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ankeny, Iowa
    Posts
    45

    Wink

    FYI I took years ago a TIG welding night class at our local community college. It consisted of A: Watching a couple of videos, B: About 29 hours of semi-supervised TIG welding practice, on carbon steel, aluminum and stainless.

    When I got done, I realized all that practice had made me a decent TIG welder, but a not an expert. Still learning.
    Miller MultiMate 200 MIG/ Stick/TIG
    Retired
    Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter
    Master Electrician
    Amateur Home shop Machinist & Welder

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sjorlin View Post
    So they are decorative-grade welds in the ugly class?
    Yes, I was a bit anxious, and knew that I should have cleaned / prepared the
    surfaces. I don't know how you can determine how much of the weld
    imperfection was lack of surface prep / cleanliness vs. loss of gas coverage though. I was using 15 cfh, a #7 nozzle, and very little electrode protrusion. Should I have been using a larger nozzle or higher flow for something like this?

    Incidentally, on the first photo, after making about 4 separate passes, when I was done the Tungsten tip looked identical to after I ground it, so I am confident that I didn't dip it. After the second photo, the pass at 115 amps, the tip did get contaminated. I didn't think that I had dipped it, and wonder if maybe the puddle splashed / sprayed it at some point. Maybe it got too
    close?
    That nozzle and flow rate sound fine, BUT we can't see your arc length, and it is a huge factor in TIG welding. Too long of an arc length and it spreads out the arc cone. On the other end of the spectrum, If you pick up even just a smidge of base metal onto the tip for the slightest contamination, it causes the same flaring out of the arc cone even when using a short arc length(!); it "umbrellas" out, which is the same net effect if you lose shielding gas coverage: you get that ugly brownish/blackish soot around the weld bead. Without actually seeing you weld it, it's anyone's guess, but now you are cognizant of the things that may cause it.

    Oh and good luck with the stainless. It's a whole 'nother animal when it comes to heat/puddle control compared to mild steel.
    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
    Eastwood MIG175 w/spoolgun
    Eastwood Versacut40 Plasma cutter

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