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Thread: Winch or hoist

  1. #1

    Default Winch or hoist

    I want to lift from the beam in my shop but do not want the lifting device attached to the beam for clearance reasons .I want to attach the lifting device to the post and run the cable up and along the beam (see pic). The question is do I use a hoist or a winch. If I understand correctly a winch is designed to pull a load horizontally and a hoist is designed to lift vertically. The problem I am trying to avoid is some hoist manuals indicate you must have your hoist directly overhead to your work. In reading some reviews, some users have tried to pull with a hoist and the devise would not work. I want to lift ornamental gates to flip on my welding table, getting to old to do it by hand. I seldom build a gate that weighs more than 400 pounds. I have a winch that has a capacity of 10,000 pounds or can buy this (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...7347_200307347) at northern tool. The only other thing I have left to consider is what I am going to route the cable with i.e. pulleys, sheaves or what. So there it is guys, I hope I am not asking for the impossible.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    At the epicenter of the Green Mountain Range in VT
    Posts
    251

    Default

    I'd use a winch, overbuild. You know either you or someone else will use it to lift a truck. Four wheel drive suppliers sell snatch blocks. Hang them from chain if you have the necessary height, or an outrigger that hangs them from a point level with the top of the beam. It's up to you to be sure your engineering is safe. No one wants it to crash to the floor with you beneath it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    st-eustache qc.canada
    Posts
    188

    Default

    lifting 400 # is not that much and if you want to make sure no one will try lifting a car with it you may like some rope and pulley that will work every where .

    google image search...rope pulley block and tackle hoist

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wa
    Posts
    531

    Default

    Hoists from what I have worked with have a brake of some sort to hold a load after you let off the button. I would use a hoist for this reason. I have had a very cheap harbor freight electric hoist for the past couple years. I use it to set beams on jobs. It has worked flawlessly. I have used it to set up to a 850lb glulam without a hitch, very nice smooth, slow operation.

    If clearance is a concern, make a small bracket system so you can slide in the hoist, use it, then pull it down. I would feel more safe doing that as you do not know how much extra load mounting it offset like you described and adding pullies would add.

  5. #5

    Default

    Thanks for the responses guys. I work in a small shop attached to my house 16X22, its just big enough to suit my needs. I mostly do ornamental work but occasionally work on a car, tractor, trailer etc. I have a two post lift for the big heavy stuff and a one ton chain hoist that I can suspend from a chain from the beam, not to mention a forklift and a smooth surface hydraulic lift. All I want to do here is flip gates easily and quickly. Here is the main issue, I have 6' 10" from the top of my table to the bottom of my beam. The chain hoist eats up nearly 14" when hung from the beam, this works fine for a 5' gate but just barley, besides it takes for ever to raise and lower. It appears if I can get a pulley/sheave mounted at the top of the beam the hoist hook will be just below the beam making it a simple and fast operation to flip a gate. As far as a hoist is concerned, as mentioned earlier most have a brake for holding a load. If I go with a hoist I will basically be mounting it upside down so I am not sure if it will operate in this manner. Just to be real specific does any one know if the Hoist will work upside down, refer to pic in first post as to why I want to mount it upside down. Keep those thought coming, they are greatly appreciated.
    TB 302
    Sync 250 DX
    MM 180 Auto
    Lincoln tombstone
    DVI-2
    Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

  6. #6

    Default

    Thanks for the responses guys. I work in a small shop attached to my house 16X22, its just big enough to suit my needs. I mostly do ornamental work but occasionally work on a car, tractor, trailer etc. I have a two post lift for the big heavy stuff and a one ton chain hoist that I can suspend from a chain from the beam, not to mention a forklift and a smooth surface hydraulic lift. All I want to do here is flip gates easily and quickly. Here is the main issue, I have 6' 10" from the top of my table to the bottom of my beam. The chain hoist eats up nearly 14" when hung from the beam, this works fine for a 5' gate but just barley, besides it takes for ever to raise and lower. It appears if I can get a pulley/sheave mounted at the top of the beam the hoist hook will be just below the beam making it a simple and fast operation to flip a gate. As far as a hoist is concerned, as mentioned earlier most have a brake for holding a load. If I go with a hoist I will basically be mounting it upside down so I am not sure if it will operate in this manner. Just to be real specific does any one know if the Hoist will work upside down, refer to pic in first post as to why I want to mount it upside down. Keep those thought coming, they are greatly appreciated.
    TB 302
    Sync 250 DX
    MM 180 Auto
    Lincoln tombstone
    DVI-2
    Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

  7. #7

    Default

    Some good comments are already in the posts above about the differences between a hoist and a winch..

    I've had conversations with the engineers at Coffing Industries http://www.cmworks.com/coffing-hoists regarding their hoists we needed to lift some "failure is not an option" heavy loads... lead acid jar batteries filled with sulfuric acid weighing 700lbs each....

    What makes a "hoist" different from a "winch" are the design requirements to ensure robust safety margins against the possibility of dropping a load and obvious dangers involved.. For example, their hoists are designed with a 5:1 safety factor.. the rated working load capacity is 1/5th of the design limit of any component used... and hoists have no release mechanism as many winches have, that if released would drop the load.. and of course a design to ensure positive braking.

    Probably good advice to follow regarding any additional components used in the system.. If the component would allow an unintended fall and seriously injure you, use the 5:1 design margin in selecting those added components..

    Pulleys in particular have design requirements that must be met to ensure the radius is large enough, whether it be chain or cable passing through it, to not be causing point stress or fatigue stress due to insufficient bending radius. For chain, the pulley shape where the chain rides, becomes a factor. Wear and some loss of strength over useable life has to be taken into account. This is probably why no manufacturer wants additional components added to their lift system that has not had a thorough engineering analysis.

    An so far as selecting equipment, if it is not made in the USA where there is stringent testing and quality control to verify compliance to design specifications, it would not be on my list of parts to even consider using.

    And if you have a question you want answered by a real expert, give the guys at Coffing Hoist a call and get their recommendation for your application........
    Last edited by dandeman; 06-29-2014 at 10:30 AM.
    Hobby Welder for about 32 years
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  8. #8

    Default

    Looks like I am spending tens of thousands of dollars or throwing safety out the window. All I want to do is flip a gate on my table, never in my wildest dreams did I think it would be so difficult and/or so costly. The last thing I want is for anyone to get hurt and by anyone I mean me since I am the only one working there. I have come close to injury several times trying to perform this action by hand, thank goodness for safety straps that I tie off before trying a flip.
    TB 302
    Sync 250 DX
    MM 180 Auto
    Lincoln tombstone
    DVI-2
    Why do we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    295

    Default

    that 10k winch should do fine i do alot of offroading and have used and have burned up plenty of winchs . whe the brake fails it doesn't drop the load fast infact it slowly backs off the only way the winch will drop a load fast is if you pop the cable or you strip out all the gears in it and i don't see that happening to you if your useing a 10k winch to lift 400lbs. we install 1000lbs super winches to lift and lower the fire pumps on jackup boats and to this day none of them have dropped or freefalled and the fire pump weighs atleast 600lbs plus hose weight. so if a 1000lbs superwinch can lift and hold a 600lbs load then your 10k winch should do it without even breakin a sweat.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    295

    Default

    what is the name brand of your winch?

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