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Thread: HTP or Miller??
05-03-2014, 10:50 AM #11
05-03-2014, 10:59 AM #12
Realistically, its what you can afford. For industrial, and a guy that depends and makes money off thier machine, then Miller, if not then any other brand will be fine. I don't fix anything besides the top brands, can't be bothered.
05-03-2014, 03:17 PM #13
Last edited by tackit; 05-03-2014 at 03:22 PM.
05-03-2014, 03:54 PM #14
Just a hobbiest here
I don't buy anything but Millers for all the reasons stated above. To me resale value is a huge factor. I don't care if they're more expensive. What you save in depreciation makes up for it.
Don't know whether you're in this boat, (no pun) but it never ceases to amaze me how people go out and buy a Bass boat that will depreciate 10k the first year but cringe when they have to pay a few hundred more for an American based top of the line welder.
Sorry for the rant.Syncrowave 200
Spoolmatic 30A aluminum gun
Miller Spectrum 625 X-Treme
Maxstar 150 S
Miller Bobcat 250
Sketchup 8 Pro
Two big fire extinguishers
"I'm a slow walker, but I never walk backwards" - Abraham Lincoln
05-03-2014, 06:29 PM #15Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
I purchased an HTP 221 about 8 months ago. Not a single regret. Definitely much more than $1000 difference in price between Dynasty and HTP. I got my fully loaded HTP with water cooler, foot pedal, 25 foot torch and ground , a free shirt, fig torch holder, dual output regulator(for purging), a starter tungsten and cup set and 2 gallons of coolant for $2863 delivered. 3 year warranty with a 30 day return if you don't like it. Paul and all the other guys there are super knowledgeable and willing to help any way they can. A comparatively equipped Dynasty 200%(10% less power) is somewhere around $6000 out the door if I am correct., That's over double. Would you like to see some people who are masters and have chosen HTP? Check out dimesfab , toxicfab , dimes fabrication and winchestermark on instagram and Facebook. All production welders and top of there game. I'll pretty much bet the house that all of them can weld better than anyone posting in this forum. Sure, it's a Miller forum so some bias is expected. Some people are stubborn as well. No matter how many times you show people the fried Dynasty 200 circuit boards that break the bank they still come back and dump more money into them. Why? Why not buy something else that is proven? Because it was made in Italy it is a bad machine? I hope to heck you all drive Toyotas as they are the most made in America vehicle out there. Dave PS- The EP/EN adjustment is very nice when doing different thicknesses of aluminum.
05-03-2014, 06:44 PM #16
And who is going to fix it when it breaks. The trouble is that even if I do a warranty machine, they don't send the parts for me to repair, I have to pay for the part, return the part, and then they decide whether or not to pay me. So I don't bother with them or MK Products (affiliated with Lincoln). These are cheap throw away machines as far as I'm concerned.
Now all machines break at some point in thier life span, Millers are no different. Parts are much more simple to get, and they tend not to use OEM parts with the exception of boards, which can be repaired at virtually any circuit board repair center. HTP and others cannot, as components both are labled with OEM part #'s so they don't cross reference to anything + the redundancy of circuit paths is outrageous. Circuit diagrams are equally as stupid, making troubleshooting a lengthy process. Often its cheaper to throw them out and buy a new one.
And why would I drive an American made Toyota, fastest rusting POS vehicle out there, I do have a "made in Japan" Forlift. Probably lasts forever unlike its American made counterparts that have given my friends nothing but trouble. Looks identical but is totally different internally.
Last edited by cruizer; 05-03-2014 at 07:00 PM.
05-04-2014, 04:53 AM #17Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- At the epicenter of the Green Mountain Range in VT
I'm remote from everything. Warranty repair of a Miller usually takes a week or so. Repair of an off brand might take a month. Meanwhile, I have to buy another machine while I wait. That would not be economical!
05-04-2014, 09:10 AM #18Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Toytoa's did have rust issues......over 10 years ago. You won't see that on the new vehicles. You won't see rusted brake lines etc either and they NEVER had reliability issues. Over the last ten years Dodge has been the worst as far as rot and Ford a close second. This is first hand experience, not hear say. Take not when you see them on the road. How many Dodge bumpers and beds do you see rotted out as well as Ford beds and cab corners.....this is on new vehicles. Don't get me started on the diesel junks.....having to pull the cab on the Ford to replace a small exhaust tube because the flex tube went bad in 2 years? Seriously? Or an EGR valve sticking on almost every 6 liter? Or replacing the front end after 20,000 miles. Sure, there are exceptions but I'd like you to send me all the pics of rusty Tundras you have seen. Being in Jersey where they use salt and calcium spray as well as brine I don't see ANY. I am partial to them, my s-10 blazer made it to 130,000 miles, my ford ranger(mazda?) made it to 160,00 before terminal engine damage occurred. I have had 9 Toyotas to date and with the exception of a clutch in my 06 Tacoma(taught the wife to drive stick on it), a TPS sensor on my Tacoma and a leaky gas cap on my 05 Corolla, all of them have gone 250,000 before I sold them. Sure, some domestics do that, rarely without a new tranny or major repair let alone the rotted brake lines and small failures that add up like window regulators, erg crap etc. Sorry for the rant, a little open minded input is helpful. HTP isn't the horrible company some make it out to be. Like I said previously.....research those guys that use their HTPs every day for production and you will see the results. It's nice having a miller repair facility close by but do I realistically get it repaired any quicker than UPSing my http back to the manufacturer if need be? By the way.....you will be hard pressed to find many if any HTP repair issues.Miller.....Lincoln, blah blah blah.....I own a Hobart 211MVP(Miller or ITW shall I say?) It's a great machine. I also owned Century which was a great machine. You know what machines you hear about going in for repair most often? Miller and Lincoln. Sure, Ford's are easy to get repaired but realistically the parts department is what makes Ford profitable. Do Millers and Lincolns really hold value like everyone says? Not so much more than HTP or other name brands I guess. I paid $1400 for my Diversion 165. I was able to sell it for $1000 after advertising for 2 months. 30% loss.....better than 50% loss I guess.....UNLESS you paid over double to begin with. As much as I love my Hobart and it welds great the very first thing I had to do was spend 2 hours on the phone with customer service figuring out that there was a plug inside that wasn't plugged in fully from the factory because the wiring harness is put in a hair "tight" as they said. Great customer service BUT why should I waste 2 hours of my time on the phone with a brand new machine.? Yea.....I just wrote a book, twisted some panties up etc BUT I tell it how it is. PS-I'd take a 1991 millermatic 250 over a millermatic 350 any day of the week......can't kill a dial arc hf.....shopmate 300 or any of the old transformers BUT this is an inverter world now and Lincoln and Miller lead the way with circuit board failures and they are not cheap. ........
05-04-2014, 09:49 AM #19
I could hear that STEAM WHISTLE all the way up here...
am still gonna keep my Dynasty 200DX, Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner & my Millermatics...
if I had it to do over again.. Guess What?? I would buy them again.. they have proven an excellent investment... and fine tools..
One must remember that I have had these for several years now.. and they were an upgrade/replacement for other BLUE equipment that I had owned and used even longer..
NOT some recent decision or purchase....
Last edited by H80N; 05-04-2014 at 12:30 PM..
The more you know, The better you know, How little you know
“The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”
Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...
My Blue Stuff:
Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000
05-04-2014, 05:01 PM #20
And I would be happy to own a HTP 221. The problem being much of what has already been said here. It's too bad IMO that HTP hasn't taken the time to build up some kind of a dealer network when you consider how long they have been around.
They have really limited themselves to the home shop welders.
As far as the statements about how certain people can out weld anyone on this forum...... I would take that back. Read the member list first. Good chance they already belong. There are HUNDREDS OF SERIOUS TRAINED PROFESSIONALS IN OUR MEMBERSHIP HERE, both old school and new school!
Not to mention bragging for someone else on the Internet is even less reliable than hearing it firsthand on the Internet
Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"
Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
Miller 30-A Spoolgun
Miller Spectrum 300
Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400