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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default Trailblazer 251NT stopped welding through the remote suddenly...Anybody have a clue?

    Hi,

    I was on a job a week ago tig welding on a pontoon boat. I was on my last two beads when suddenly I got no welding power when I stepped on the remote pedal. To make this brief, I checked the breakers, they were OK and checked all the connections,they were fine too. I tried in local mode on both the HF unit and the Trail Blazer's panel bypassing the contactor and nothing. I get gas and the HF spark that jumps to ground, that's it.

    I went to stick mode (by passing the HF unit altogether) and finished the job with some aluminum rod I carry for situations where only a rod will work. I'm stumped.

    With the help of some members of another welders forum I ran through some basic tests to try and narrow down the problem.

    1) I tested for 24 volt ac in pins A & G 14 pin connecter on the Trailblazer. It was good.
    2) I tested for welding output by connecting pins A & B on the 14 pin connector on the Trailblazer while in remote mode. It was good also.
    3) On my remote HF unit (HF251-d) I tested for continuity between pins A & B when pressing on the pedal. It was good.
    4) I tested each of the five wires from the remote to the 14 pin connector for continuity and they were all good.
    5) I found that if I connected the remote directly to the front panel of the TB, I had full amperage control when using the foot pedal. If I connect the remote to the HF unit, I get no welding power.
    6) I had a spare HF unit that was working fine until I put it in storage. It is the same model except it has the remote contactor installed as it was used on an older AED200LE with no internal contactor. It also failed to work.

    The machine is producing welding current and sending it out to the welding lugs.
    The remote foot pedal and works fine if connected directly to the TB. Two different remote HF units failed. The TB is behaving as if there is an internal "sensor" of some type that detects when a remote HF unit is installed that has gone bad as I cannot explain why two identical units failed with the identical symptoms.

    I tried both HF units in all combinations to seek if I could get welding current out of them. In local mode, remote mode no welding current passes through them. I don't know what else to do.

    Anyone have an idea?

    Thanks,

    Tony

    Tony

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,678

    Default

    Sooo, its just your HF unit thats damaged, a serial # might be handy. As for both going down, the spare probably isn't configured on the inside.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Hi cruizer,


    Thanks for the reply. The serial no. is KK224497. This is the one without the contactor that cut out on me on the job.

    The other one is: LA261674. This one has the contactor.

    The pedal initiates the the HF spark and gas flow on both normally.

    Thanks,

    Tony

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,678

    Default

    The 251 has a built in contactor, so the HF unit with the contactor is looking for weld power from the 251. The one without has a 14pin which ciontrols the contactor in the 251. This is where your kinda getting screwed up

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default trailblazer 251NT cut out suddently

    Hi again,

    I tried the one with the contactor as a last resort to try and get back up and running. I have been using the one without the the built in contactor for the past two years without a hitch until it suddenly went out on me last Saturday.

    The 251 with the contactor has a 14 pin connector exiting out the back just like the other version without the contactor which goes to the front panel of the TB. I would imagine that it would pass the signal to open the internal contactor upon pressing the remote pedal, NO?

    Anyway, the real issue is why my remote suddenly cut out on me. Do you think its in the TB or is the remote HF? As I mentioned earlier, it is behaving as if there were a sensing circuit in the TB to signal when there is a remote connected and let it control amperage via the remote pedal (or sliding switch) and it is not doing its job.

    Otherwise I can't explain why connecting the remote pedal directly to the TB works just fine. If I only did ferrous or stainless metals I could scratch start without the need for the HF. Most of my service calls are aluminum projects that require a tig torch (broken tranny cases, engine blocks, rims, pontoon boats and boat hulls, etc.).

    I would think if the problem was with the HF box, then when I swapped out the 251 with the one that had the built in contactor it would simply pass through the signal for closing the internal contactor and control amperage just as the first one did. This one had been in service for years without a hitch and was working up to the second when I put it away in storage when I upgraded my welder to the TB from the old AED200LE. Is my logic flawed here?

    Any help is more than appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Tony

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default trailblazer 251nt stopped welding through the remote suddenly...

    Hi,

    I just got off the phone with Miller and the tech (Dan) said that it should be working so what came to mind was that the tig torch could have a break in the power lead. He suggested hooking up a stinger to the remote and testing it to confirm or rule out.

    I am away from my equipment until Tuesday and it is the first thing I'll do when I get back.

    Thanks,

    Tony

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,678

    Default

    The remote passes straight through both units so thats not the issue, only the relay from the pedal stops in the unit to turn the Hf on, then it reroutes to turn the machine's contactor on. Yeah, could very well be a blown tig torch.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    17

    Default Trailblazer 251NT stopped welding through the remote suddenly...Anybody have a clue?

    For some reason, I just received your reply (notification) on this posting. Sorry I didn't report back. It did turn out to be the power lead. Once I replaced it, the problem vanished.

    Thanks for the replies. I purchased a fuse link to put inside the power block. It will save the power cable from burning up for lack of cooling. This particular power cable had been repaired by me. It had burned a hole in the tubing when the coolant ran low after bursting the return line.

    I have since replaced that line with a braided version as several had blown on me. I have been using a home made cooler and didn't realize that the clear tubing I was using was only rated at 70 degrees F and 50 psi.


    Thanks again,

    Tony

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