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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    6

    Default MVP Plug on Multimatic 200

    I think one of the biggest oversights in the development of the Multimatic 200 is the lack of MVP plug options for 230VAC.

    Oddly, Miller chose to produce two MVP plugs for 115VAC (#219-259 & #219-261), even though there is virtually no advantage to having the NEMA 5-20P option, as the NEMA 5-15P plug will plug into a typical NEMA 5-20R receptacle.

    So why only one plug for 230V (#219-258)? Furthermore, the NEMA 6-50R receptacle is not typically found outside of welding shops, or specific farm & industrial locations. It does make sense to provide a NEMA 6-50P MVP plug for larger welders that are going to spend most of their time in a dedicated welding shop location. But the primary advantage of the Multimatic 200 -- in fact, I would say its main selling point -- is that it is designed as a portable lightweight unit designed to go "to the job." But how many construction or maintenance job sites are going to have a NEMA 6-50R receptacle available? I've never encountered one. Even the typical construction site generator doesn't have a NEMA 6-50R receptacle. What are commonly available are NEMA 6-20R (straight) or NEMA L14-30R (locking).

    This means we must make our own adapter cord, or we must limit the Multimatic 200 to 115VAC use. This defeats the entire purpose of the MVP plug and diminishes the portability, compactness, and versatility of the Multimatic 200. And let's be clear: making your own adapter is not cheap: just the NEMA 6-50R connector alone for making your own adapter cord will run $50 to $100.

    None of this makes any sense. My suspicion is that the MVP was developed for Miller's other product lines, and that it was then carried over to the Multimatic 200. Perhaps not as an afterthought, but without consideration of the Multimatic's objective as a stand-alone roving welding shop.

    So is Miller going to expand the MVP plug options? I certainly hope so.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Northern Arizona
    Posts
    513

    Default

    I don't know where you shop but I can build a 6-50r to 14-50p or 14-30p for about $35. A 6-50r to l14-30r would run me about the same. This is all with 8/3 wiring.

    I know what you are getting at but you seem to be pricing the adapter cords pretty high. I like to have adapters around because then i can plug anything into those receptacles. Within reason of course. It would be nice to have MVP plugs with more variety but I don't have anything with MVP... so I just wire my own stuff up. Good luck.
    MillerMatic 251
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elvis View Post
    I don't know where you shop but I can build a 6-50r to 14-50p or 14-30p for about $35. A 6-50r to l14-30r would run me about the same. This is all with 8/3 wiring.

    I know what you are getting at but you seem to be pricing the adapter cords pretty high. I like to have adapters around because then i can plug anything into those receptacles. Within reason of course. It would be nice to have MVP plugs with more variety but I don't have anything with MVP... so I just wire my own stuff up. Good luck.
    I guess it depends on how you want to make up your adapter cord. If you're making it from a steel junction box & cover with an installed receptacle, then you can build it cheaper. But that makes for a bulky and heavier adapter (and one that is not as professional looking). All of which is fine for kicking around your welding shop. But that's diametrically opposed to the concept of the Multimatic 200 which is supposed to be a compact, lightweight, professional "go anywhere" welder.

    What I was referring to are specific cord-end connectors. The lowest cost one I found was made by ArrowHart and sold by Galco:


    http://www.galco.com/buy/Arrow-Hart-...-Devices/6709N

    This connector cost me $39.47 plus $13.75 shipping to California. Other suppliers and other makes were priced significantly higher, up to over $100 for this type of NEMA 6-50R connector.

    I don't know how much it costs Miller to produce an MVP adapter, but it seems to me they are losing money by not offering additional adapters.

    And I still can't come up with a reason for Miller offering a NEMA 5-20P MVP plug, but NOT offering any other 230V MVP plugs.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Lodi, CA
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Very simple, Cost. Do you have any idea of the manufacturing costs involved with those MVP plugs? Versus the cost of somebody making thousands of generic extension cord plugs? Much as many refuse to admit, Miller is a publicly owned company, and does need to make PROFIT. Miller is NOT a public charity. They provide one plug for 120, one plug for 240, it is up to you to make them work. Get over it, make an adapter, and start welding.
    Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Lodi, CA
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyGuy10 View Post
    I don't know how much it costs Miller to produce an MVP adapter, but it seems to me they are losing money by not offering additional adapters.
    How are they loosing money? Is there a competitor offering welders with a choice of 20 - 30 different 240 volt MVP plugs? That is taking business away from Miller? Show me. Post links.
    Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JSFAB View Post
    Very simple, Cost. Do you have any idea of the manufacturing costs involved with those MVP plugs?
    ...
    They provide one plug for 120, one plug for 240
    No, I don't know what the manufacturing costs are. But you obviously don't either. I will guess that it's less than $10 each, based on the retail price of the MVP plugs being between $13 and $19.

    And you're wrong about what Miller offers: they have one plug for 230V and two plugs for 120V. They include one 120V plug and one 230V plug with the Multimatic 200. But they sell the third plug (120V) as an option. Do you think they sell that at cost? I'll wager they sell all their MVP plugs for a profit.

    The question is why did Miller decide to make a NEMA 5-20P as an option (which I'll wager they sell very few of, if any), when NEMA L14-30P and NEMA 6-20P options would be significantly more useful and SELLABLE as options (thus increasing profits for their shareholders).

    Quote Originally Posted by JSFAB View Post
    Versus the cost of somebody making thousands of generic extension cord plugs? Much as many refuse to admit, Miller is a publicly owned company, and does need to make PROFIT. Miller is NOT a public charity., it is up to you to make them work. Get over it, make an adapter, and start welding.
    Instead of getting on such a high horse, perhaps you should engage your brain a little more. Who asked for free MVP plugs? I certainly didn't. On the contrary, I would have gladly bought additional MVP plugs if Miller offered them, even at a higher price point than what Miller sells the three MVP plugs they currently make. That is the whole point of my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSFAB View Post
    How are they loosing money?
    This is how: I already spent $54 just for one NEMA 6-50R connector (made by another manufacturer and sold by another distributor); by the time I buy the SOOW cable and the NEMA L14-30P plug, I will have over $75 invested in making just one 240VAC adapter. And I need two 230V adapters. That sound's like a HUGE lost profit opportunity to me.

    Even if I were to make or buy a cheapo adapter as suggested by Elvis in this thread, that's still $35 for each adapter, which is $16 more than what Miller charges for their most expensive MVP plug (the 230V NEMA 6-50P). Do you think it's a wise business decision for Miller to allow other companies to take all that extra profit from Miller?

    By your line of reasoning, one must wonder: why did Miller even develop their custom MVP in the first place?
    Last edited by SpyGuy10; 01-16-2014 at 04:05 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    328

    Default They used to have 4 plugs

    If I remember correctly they did have the 30 amp dryer plug in the 2010 or 2011 catalog. Maybe it was the 14-50 plug. Hobart only includes 1 115 and 1 240 plug. The discontinued 240 volt plug was $30+ . Find the part number and try to order one. I have 2 adapters hanging on the wall...a dryer plug and 4 prong twistlock for a generator.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deafman View Post
    If I remember correctly they did have the 30 amp dryer plug in the 2010 or 2011 catalog. Maybe it was the 14-50 plug. Hobart only includes 1 115 and 1 240 plug. The discontinued 240 volt plug was $30+ . Find the part number and try to order one. I have 2 adapters hanging on the wall...a dryer plug and 4 prong twistlock for a generator.
    Thanks for that info. I didn't realize that Hobart also uses the MVP plug. (Yes, I knew that Hobart is a division of Miller; I've just never closely examined the Hobart product line.) So that means there's an even larger market for MVP plugs than I had originally assumed.

    Some marketing person at Miller may be thinking, we don't sell enough MVP plugs as add-on purchases to make this a worthwhile manufacturing investment. I would argue that the reason is because Miller is not offering the MVP plug options that the market is demanding. Right now, the only MVP plug being sold that is not already included with the welding machine is the NEMA 5-20P, which seems to be a solution in search of a problem.

    Deafman found the need to make two 230V adapters. I have an immediate need for two 230V adapters (and may need a drier outlet adapter in the future). I bet if we polled most users with portable welders, the vast majority of them would have at least one adapter. Imagine if, for every MVP welder sold by Miller or Hobart, they also sold one, two, or more MVP plugs as add-on purchases, and that each MVP plug had a 100% profit margin (or more). Those are a lot of consumer dollars Miller could be capturing instead of those dollars going to other companies as they are now. And then the MVP plug would realize its full potential!

    My recommendation is that Miller offer at least the following three additional MVP plugs: NEMA L14-30P; NEMA 6-20P; and NEMA 14-30P.
    Last edited by SpyGuy10; 06-11-2014 at 03:06 PM. Reason: Typo

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    2

    Default

    When adapting the miller plug to a nema L14-30, is the neutral not used?
    I can't find an adapter ready to buy so I need to put one together.
    All suggestions appreciated.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJJ View Post
    When adapting the miller plug to a nema L14-30, is the neutral not used?
    I can't find an adapter ready to buy so I need to put one together.
    All suggestions appreciated.
    Assuming you want to use the 240v- No, the neutral is not used.
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