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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Tracy, CA
    Posts
    215

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    I use .2 for pre. Like previously mentioned, It's nice to pull the trigger to check the flow without having to cut wire. I use 15cfh in the shop.
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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    PacNorthWest
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Kevin, as pretty as it is, the 1G limitation (I'm told) for Spray keeps me from getting too excited about going there - haven't priced the dual shield stuff yet so that may be a deal breaker.

    I have a Case backhoe and 2 45 horse tractors, and have gotten addicted to MIG and plasma after 35 years of using only gas and stick, so am hoping to extend the MIG to OOP and heavier stuff.

    Supposedly Spray isn't workable OOP much, and I don't have a 7 ton positioner, nor do I wanna flip my 580 upside down

    Ain't gonna pull the trigger on either one til I know more... Steve

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    greenfield new hampshire
    Posts
    876

    Default

    i hear ya steve, i dont do any spray welding, if its that thick, i bring out the 7018, i prefer stick welding on structual welds on heavy equip. have you used the chart for setting up the machine to weld, the first time i used my 252, was on half inch material, i set it at the setting that is on the chart, it went into spray right away, i fiddeled with the settings and really got it to fry, speaking of frying, the gun just about burnt itself up. i just went thru this delima with miller, they swapped out the stock gun with a heavier gun,made for higher amps as for dualshield, why, i asked myself the same question a while back, unless you are running big beads all day long, then it would be a good thing. if i am correct, the wire is about five bucks a pound. i just bought my 252 right around xmas time, and work is slow in the shop, mayby, this coming spring and summer, if i get any heavy jobs, like a cutting edge on a bucket, then i will give the mig a shot

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    PacNorthWest
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Sounds similar to my experiences - I have Miller's "slide rule" mig and stick calculators, and just checked the online version - their only recommendation for 1/2" steel is spray, 98/2 @ 29-30 volts - that's definitely spray country.

    I've done a bit of 1/2 and 3/4 fabbing with the 252/.035 wire, I just do multiple stringers til it's at least as thick as the material - that experience is mostly what's causing me to look at aftermarket mig guns vs. melted torches.

    As expensive and time consuming as it is to change liner, tip, gas, wire, etc, plus the higher cost of going to Outershield wire, I'll probably do the same as you - drag out/dust off the stick machine and 7018 (after tacking with wire) for the heavier (especially OOP) stuff... Steve

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    greenfield new hampshire
    Posts
    876

    Default

    i run a small 1 man welding shop, i do fab and repair, when i get any type of construction equipment and the material is 1/4" and up i have always used the stick, but i am rethinking that stratedgy, i may go to the mig more since i have the 252, it runs great when used hot, most migs work better in the low end than the top, but this 252 is made for high amps. i like stick welding, but it is time consuming. my mm200 still runs good, then again, it runs better in the low range, granted, i have used it since 1986 flawlessly. i would hate to over work her in her senior years, she has been very good to me.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    PacNorthWest
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Kevin, which heavier gun did you get for your 252, and do you like it? I'm teetering between a Bernard Q300 and a Roughneck 300 amp to replace the M25 gun, both seem to have their good points. I also want to get a "Y" for the C25 tanks, so I can set up my 30A gun for .023 hard wire for tacking/sheet metal, and probably keep using .035 Lincoln hardwire on the mig gun (I don't do aluminum at all, at least not yet)

    That way, I can just pick up whichever gun I want to use and touch the trigger and go.

    I'm not a for hire weld shop, just my own stuff - but I have a LOT of projects to finish for all 3 tractors before spring, may make it if I'm lucky... Steve

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,585

    Default

    If you want real spray, and no short arc then is always 98/2 thats 98% Argon and 2% oxygen. Pretty much anything with a CO2 blend is globular transfer and short arc. Now Globular transfer sounds like spray but isn't true spray.

    As for pre and post flow, maybe 0.2 and 0.2 any more and its kinda a waste of gas, unless its areal heavy weld, in which case increase the post fow slightly. Robotic aplications use this function, but few operators use it

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    PacNorthWest
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Cruizer, thanks for that - from my research so far, spray still seems to wanna "stay in the shadows", meaning that nobody wants to explain much about it - so far I've learned enough to "say no to spray", for any of my applications. Don't like the position limitations is the main reason.

    I weld mostly mild steel, anywhere from .065 wall tubing up to 1" plate, some things I could probably lay flat for spray, but it's not worth the changeover hassles for a couple of cases.

    For now, I have a few extra bottles and am thinking about getting one of the smaller 80 cf ones filled with CO2 in order to compare penetration and spatter differences relative to C25 gas.

    Other than that, I see no advantage to anything but short arc. My old copper wound stick machine will do 5/32 7018 all day without me having to wait on duty cycle, it doesn't matter if the wind's blowing or not, and I have enough leads on it to reach 40-50 feet outside the shop door if necessary.

    Kinda thinking it's time to re-establish the KISS method here... Steve

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    greenfield new hampshire
    Posts
    876

    Default

    hey buckit, if you go with co2, before hand, check the door chart for c02, compared to an argon mix., you will notice that the settings are lower for co2 on the same size material compared to 75/25. so unless you get a better gun, you will be going backwards, using a gas that gets even hotter. when i bought my 252, i cooked the thingy just above the nozzle after 5 minutes of welding, be it the first 5 minutes on a new machine. i have bought alot of equipment from my lws over the years, they swapped out a bernard q gun, its a 300 amp gun, i did a small job last sunday for a friend, a 95 chevy truck, the rear cab mount on the frame rotted off, i dont have a lift so i use the jack stand technigue, this was the first time that i used the new gun, it is big and heavy, not the gun for what i was doing, but, i dont do much of that any way, when i did my practice welds with the miller rep, i loved the bernard, it has a swivel option, you can turn the neck, and changing tips is a breeze, you dont need to be a mechanic to swap out gun parts like the gun that comes with the 252. as far as gas goes, some where in this country, there is this guy, i forgot his name, many people here will know of it, he is the go to guy on shielding gas,s, he has written books on it. industry has used his services for creating weld specs, i wish i could remember, any ways, his big thing about mig welding is very interisting. number 1, 75/25, for mild steel is not the best mix, 85/15 or 90/10, the 90/10 does need better prep before welding, and also, all of these special tri mixs are nothing more than gimmicks, i will try to find this info. kevin

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    PacNorthWest
    Posts
    59

    Default

    Kevin, I'd like to stay away from TOO big and heavy, think I'll ask to fondle the bernard and roughnecks next time I'm pestering my LWS And yeah, I understand the CO2 runs hotter - that's partly why the heavier gun. I wanna see how it does on thicker steel, maybe I won't have to break out the 7018 for some of the heavier fab on the hoe/tractors..

    I think this

    http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htm

    is the guy you're talking about, I'm gonna have to read his stuff a few more times to let it sink in - problem is, my LWS doesn't have a lot of choices in mixed gases. Next time I'm there I'll have 'em either give me a list of normally stocked ones or at least write it down for a change.

    I was just there yesterday, got a couple rolls of .035 steel wire for the 30A gun along with a few tips that size and a smaller, 1/2" copper nozzle. The gun came with a 1/8" recess diffuser, I'll try it but I'm used to flush on the other gun.

    I'm starting on a 12' x 12' mobile "car port" shelter that'll be 12' tall, gonna set it up so I can drive under it with the 580 and pick it up/move it with the loader. It'll have corrugated f'glas roofing, and hooks for tarps on sidewalls.

    Seems like I spend half my time setting up tarps so they won't become bathtubs when I try to work on something during the (nearly endless) rain. Got a small stack of 2" .120 wall square tube today in 24' length, kinda hard to get two 12 footers out of a 20

    I'll hook up another c25 tank/reg for the spool gun and eventually go down to .023 wire on it, keeping the main gun for heavier stuff. Gonna set the 30A up then for sheet metal/tacking, main gun for higher power, and take advantage of the 252's auto switch memory... Steve

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