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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bistineau View Post
    If this is what I needed for these vehicles, I would build a ramp of compacted sand, and pour about a 3" thick slab of concrete over it to keep it there. No problems, no worries, and it's always there waiting for you when you need it. Save the black pipe for some other little project or maybe use some of it as rebar in the slab.[/LIST]
    Thanks...currently not in a position to construct a permanent fixture.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wa
    Posts
    530

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMW View Post
    You can always get two 2x12x8' boards & block them underneath in two spots & you will be fine. Probably the cheapest & easiest.
    Yep. Don't even have to cut the boards at all.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    539

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob61 View Post
    Thanks. When you say "do it right," if you have the time to tell, what would that actually look like?
    I think since he quoted me on that post, I would say he is probably in agreement with what I said. Why is it you are not able to make a permanent ramp at this time? Is it because you are renting the place? Sand and enough Quikrete to do this is not very expensive. Some landlords may be accepting of an upgrade to their property like this if you ask them, knowing it will be left there if you move out.
    Last edited by Bistineau; 12-13-2013 at 09:31 AM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    569

    Default

    I think the OP is a lot like some of us here.

    Likes to weld, has some metal and has a project. I'd say go for it.

    There are always options but if I can come up with a project that requires welding, I kind of lean towards that. Of course you want it to work out in the end and sometimes ask a few questions, afterword's, I would be out there cutting pipe.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    8

    Default Flammable container?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardrock40 View Post
    I think the OP is a lot like some of us here.

    Likes to weld, has some metal and has a project. I'd say go for it.

    There are always options but if I can come up with a project that requires welding, I kind of lean towards that. Of course you want it to work out in the end and sometimes ask a few questions, afterword's, I would be out there cutting pipe.
    You got it H40...have metal-have a project-would like it to be welding.

    Thanks to everyone for the input but one thing no one has weighed in about is the last question on my second post.

    Can anyone tell me whether or not a long-used gas pipe, having contained flammable material over several decades, qualifies as a "flammable container" and is therefore risky to weld?

    I'm a rookie welder and know what I know and nothing else. I guess I'll risk asking a dumb question one more time rather than make it a trial and error on this one.

    Thanks again.
    Last edited by Bob61; 12-13-2013 at 03:28 PM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    46

    Default Not Recommended

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob61 View Post
    This is a request for information and safety concerns around welding salvaged black pipe from a residential renovation. It was being used to pipe natural gas from the city meter through a basement to various fixtures.

    I have an old but good AIRCO transformer welder with plenty of amps and was thinking 6010, 6011 rods.

    My idea is to cut the gas pipe into 15" lengths and weld them as rungs between 3"x2" angle to form a set of ramps that will get my car up a 16" incline needed to get it inside my shop.

    Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated.
    While you may get away with this, a back of an envelope calculation says otherwise. I would not put a 4000 lb vehicle on 15" lengths of 3/4" SCH 40 black iron pipe.

    The load on each pipe will be approximate 1/4 of the total weight or 1000 lbs.
    If you, conservatively, consider the pipe to be a simple beam with a point load in the middle, the bending moment on it will be 3750 in-lbs.
    The moment of inertia of 3/4" SCH 40 pipe is 0.037 in^4.
    The bending stress on the pipe is then 53209 psi.
    The yield stress for black iron is around 35000 psi! (Please verify this.)
    Now, if you consider that the pipe is not really a simple beam and then do a more sophisticated analysis by considering the entire system, then I surmise that the stress on the pipe would be closer to 1/2 of 53209. Still, that doesn't leave much design margin.

    Lastly, keep in mind that the above calculation is for a static load. However, this ramp will have to handle a dynamic load which will be greater than a static load both vertically and longitudinally. Note that statically, the longitudinal load is very small. Dynamically, it is much larger. So beware.

    In summary, I think that in the end of the day, after a lot of work, you will have a structure that is both heavy and weak.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    483

    Default

    I gave away my ramps and have no use for such. I've been wrenching on vehicles for decades.

    Instead, I use a floor jack to raise the vehicle and keep rims and 4x4s handy to support it safely. Lift with jack, toss rim under frame or appropriately reinforced unibody area, repeat.

    Ramp require wheels be installed on the vehicle so they interfere with maintenance. BTW I also worked at a used car lot shop where we pulled and stuffed many drivetrains while supporting the vehicle using the rim method. Jack stands aren't as stable as rims, which are even stable on earth or sand. We used rims in salvage yards for that reason.

    A really useful project (if you have or plan on having torches) is a cutting table. When in doubt, make equipment and make it mobile so it will be easy to take with when you move. Vise stands are handy, and vises live outdoors just fine for decades if you keep the screw greased.

  8. #18

    Default

    Actually the tread width will spread the load out well. I wouldn't hesitate to use 3/4" black pipe....especially if the legs are facing inwards on the angle leaving only a span of 9-11" depending if it's 2 or 3" angle. Just put a couple verticals along the way and you will be fine. Just be confident in your welds...Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by Arizona Joe View Post
    While you may get away with this, a back of an envelope calculation says otherwise. I would not put a 4000 lb vehicle on 15" lengths of 3/4" SCH 40 black iron pipe.

    The load on each pipe will be approximate 1/4 of the total weight or 1000 lbs.
    If you, conservatively, consider the pipe to be a simple beam with a point load in the middle, the bending moment on it will be 3750 in-lbs.
    The moment of inertia of 3/4" SCH 40 pipe is 0.037 in^4.
    The bending stress on the pipe is then 53209 psi.
    The yield stress for black iron is around 35000 psi! (Please verify this.)
    Now, if you consider that the pipe is not really a simple beam and then do a more sophisticated analysis by considering the entire system, then I surmise that the stress on the pipe would be closer to 1/2 of 53209. Still, that doesn't leave much design margin.

    Lastly, keep in mind that the above calculation is for a static load. However, this ramp will have to handle a dynamic load which will be greater than a static load both vertically and longitudinally. Note that statically, the longitudinal load is very small. Dynamically, it is much larger. So beware.

    In summary, I think that in the end of the day, after a lot of work, you will have a structure that is both heavy and weak.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    539

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob61 View Post

    Thanks to everyone for the input but one thing no one has weighed in about is the last question on my second post.

    Can anyone tell me whether or not a long-used gas pipe, having contained flammable material over several decades, qualifies as a "flammable container" and is therefore risky to weld?
    Thanks again.
    If this pipe is disconnected and has been open for awhile, there should be no problem welding on it. Cut it to length and get after it. Post pix of the build and finished results.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    northern NJ
    Posts
    1,821

    Default

    About the pipe bending, being spaced only 6" apart if a pipe started to bend the tire would then hit the pipe before, after it or both & would then stop bending. This is why I said "The worst is it will bend slightly. I don't see it failing completely to cause damage." I agree it is not ideal material to use but I don't see any harm coming from it. 3" leg vertical & 2" leg horizontal facing in.

    I would not hesitate to weld on the pipe. Even it if was flammable (which I would say it isn't but I'm not there to see it) both ends are open so it would not explode.
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