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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    407

    Default filler for chromolly ?

    guys,
    im getting a small side job to repair a go kart frame thats made out of chromolly, and was wondering what filler rod to tig weld it with ?
    thanks
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  2. #2
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    Default

    Assuming it's 4130 I would use er70 tig wire.

    If you do a search on here you will get more reading than you want.

    edit -- I removed "er80" from my above sentence.
    Last edited by MMW; 11-24-2013 at 07:29 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by MMW View Post
    Assuming it's 4130 I would use er70 or er80 tig wire.

    If you do a search on here you will get more reading than you want.
    +1...ER70....

    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...highlight=4130
    Last edited by H80N; 11-13-2013 at 06:33 AM.
    .

    *******************************************
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  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H80N View Post
    thanks guys.. much appreciated. i will go with the er70s since i have that
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  5. #5

    Default

    ER70-s2
    Quote Originally Posted by FABMAN View Post
    thanks guys.. much appreciated. i will go with the er70s since i have that

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    306

    Default

    ER80 filler is closer to the strength of the 4130 than ER70 if you're not planning on heat treating the part after welding. Do a little research on welding 4130 before you do the job because you can mess up the material by getting it to hot or allowing it to cool to quickly.
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  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jrscgsr View Post
    ER80 filler is closer to the strength of the 4130 than ER70 if you're not planning on heat treating the part after welding. Do a little research on welding 4130 before you do the job because you can mess up the material by getting it to hot or allowing it to cool to quickly.
    Nope...

    I disagree.. ER-70 is the way to go...

    You might change your mind too once you have read this article in the AWS Welding Journal on 4130 filler metals that we referenced earlier..

    http://www.aws.org/wj/apr03/AWfeature.html

    .

    From the article:

    "What about Welding 4130?
    In the mid 1970s, while managing an R&D group for a welding filler metals manufacturer, I received a phone call from a dragster chassis builder. The company wanted to weld 4130 tubing and needed a filler metal recommendation. After careful review of the requirements and desired welding practices, the solution was defined. The company was welding 4130 normalized tubing. It would not be heat-treated after welding, and preheat was not desirable. Most of the weld joints were intersecting tubes that required fillet welds.
    Filler Metal Choice
    The main objective was to produce porosity- and crack-free weld deposits. The best filler material to use was a low-carbon alloy, AWS ER70S-2. This welding alloy has a very low carbon content, nominally 0.06, which can handle dilution into the relatively high (in terms of weld metal) 0.30 carbon in the 4130. The resulting diluted weld deposit has a tensile strength of approximately 590 to 620 MPa (85,000 to 90,000 lb/in.2) The actual strength will depend on the amount of dilution with the 4130, weld bead size, and material thickness. This is usually an under match for the 4130 tubing, which could have 760 to 800 MPa (100,000 to 115,000 lb/in.2) tensile strength, depending on how the material was processed. However, if extra joint strength is required, a slightly larger fillet size or gussets can be employed. In addition, this welding wire contains small amounts of aluminum, titanium, and zirconium. Although these elements were initially added to handle welding over mill scale, they also contribute to a less fluid weld pool. The benefit to the welder is easier out-of-position welding. Note: It is recommended all welding on 4130 be performed on ground surfaces free of oil or grease. Several years after making this recommendation, when looking at a catalog from the dragster chassis manufacturer, it was interesting to note it advertising its use of the ER70S-2 filler metal for their 4130 welding. In fact, offering it for sale for those customers purchasing frame parts and doing their own welding!"
    Last edited by H80N; 11-13-2013 at 09:26 PM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
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    Default

    Here is a pretty good video from weldingtipsandtricks...

    "Tig Welding Some 4130 Chromoly with ER70s2 filler wire"

    http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/welding-4130.html

    If you want to get into the metalurgy and physics of it.. this video goes into it in more depth

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytSrEggjz1A

    (first 2/3 is pretty good.. the last 1/3 is an ad for something else)



    Last edited by H80N; 11-14-2013 at 07:35 AM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H80N View Post
    Nope...

    I disagree.. ER-70 is the way to go...

    You might change your mind too once you have read this article in the AWS Welding Journal on 4130 filler metals that we referenced earlier..

    http://www.aws.org/wj/apr03/AWfeature.html

    .

    From the article:

    "What about Welding 4130?
    In the mid 1970s, while managing an R&D group for a welding filler metals manufacturer, I received a phone call from a dragster chassis builder. The company wanted to weld 4130 tubing and needed a filler metal recommendation. After careful review of the requirements and desired welding practices, the solution was defined. The company was welding 4130 normalized tubing. It would not be heat-treated after welding, and preheat was not desirable. Most of the weld joints were intersecting tubes that required fillet welds.
    Filler Metal Choice
    The main objective was to produce porosity- and crack-free weld deposits. The best filler material to use was a low-carbon alloy, AWS ER70S-2. This welding alloy has a very low carbon content, nominally 0.06, which can handle dilution into the relatively high (in terms of weld metal) 0.30 carbon in the 4130. The resulting diluted weld deposit has a tensile strength of approximately 590 to 620 MPa (85,000 to 90,000 lb/in.2) The actual strength will depend on the amount of dilution with the 4130, weld bead size, and material thickness. This is usually an under match for the 4130 tubing, which could have 760 to 800 MPa (100,000 to 115,000 lb/in.2) tensile strength, depending on how the material was processed. However, if extra joint strength is required, a slightly larger fillet size or gussets can be employed. In addition, this welding wire contains small amounts of aluminum, titanium, and zirconium. Although these elements were initially added to handle welding over mill scale, they also contribute to a less fluid weld pool. The benefit to the welder is easier out-of-position welding. Note: It is recommended all welding on 4130 be performed on ground surfaces free of oil or grease. Several years after making this recommendation, when looking at a catalog from the dragster chassis manufacturer, it was interesting to note it advertising its use of the ER70S-2 filler metal for their 4130 welding. In fact, offering it for sale for those customers purchasing frame parts and doing their own welding!"
    I agree with H80N. I am not an expert, but I have a friend who is. He builds chrome-moly frames for AA Fuelers for a living. When I have a question about welding, I ask him! He uses ER70-2 for chrome molly frames. Use pulse on your tig to limit heat, and give you time to catch up with any gaps left by loose fit up.

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