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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    201

    Default Used Syncrowave

    If you want a good basic TIG, without spending a lot of money, it is hard to beat a used Miller Syncrowave 180 or 200. I have owned both, both are good. Both have High Frequency, AC and DC, so you can weld any metal, including aluminum. Both include stick and TIG. The original version of the Syncrowave 180 is arguably better for beginners, as it has minimal controls, three switches and one knob, simple to use. The later version of the 180 (180SD) added an AC balance knob and digital displays. The 200 has lots of bells and whistles, including pulse, which I like for thin copper. The 180 is a little smaller, but both are relatively big and heavy, around 200 pounds. Figure on at least a 50 amp 220V circuit for either welder, which is what I use. Some recommend a 60 amp 220V breaker.

    I bought the 200 for $1300, too good a deal to pass up, and then sold my Synchrowave 180 for $1150. The 180 price that I got was probably higher than average, and the 200 price that I paid was lower than average, so I did very well, paid only $150 to upgrade.

    Anyway, for somewhere between $900 and $1500, you can buy a used Syncrowave 180 or 200, and have a welder that will probably serve all your needs for decades. If you buy used, and you decide you need a bigger or fancier welder down the road, you can get almost all your money back when you sell it. You will take a big depreciation hit if you buy a new welder and sell it later. With these Syncrowaves you can TIG weld any thin metal up to about 3/16 inch, and you can stick weld any steel 1/8 inch or thicker. I used the 180 as a stick welder for months before I got around to buying an argon bottle. Some report that the 180 had a higher than average repair rate, but my original version 180 gave me no trouble.

    I am not a big fan of the Miller Diversion because it lacks stick. Stick is what you need to weld thick steel. The Dynasty is a great welder, but way too much money unless you have to have easy portability, or need 110V. (Note that a 20 amp 120Volt outlet will only run a welder at very reduced power, so 110V operation is not that great an advantage). If you need portability, you could consider a Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC, maybe half the price of a Dynasty. The Miller EconoTIG looks good on paper, but a Miller factory guy said that it was not that great, that the Syncrowave 180 was a much better machine. Lincoln makes the Square Wave 175, and Precision TIG 225, similar to the Syncrowaves, look for a used Lincoln as a possible alternative. The Thermal Arc 185 or 186 AC/DC are possible alternatives, inverter welders at reasonable prices. Many if not most inverter welders are DC only, so you can’t TIG aluminum. (Examples: Multimatic 200, XMT series, Maxstar series, the new Thermal Arc multi-process welders, Lincoln V350 and C300, etc.) The Chinese machines from Longevity and Everlast have an attractive price, but resale value, reliability, and support are concerns.

    Note that many inverter welders, such as the Dynasty or Invertec series, do not come standard with a TIG torch, regulator, and foot pedal, so they are even more expensive than they look at first glance. The Syncrowaves come with everything you need except a gas bottle. The welder manufacturers are pushing their high end inverter machines, but it is hard to justify the much higher cost, especially when you can find a used Syncrowave for not much more than $1000. They have sold a lot of Syncrowaves, so you should be able to find a used one if you look.

    Just for comparison, a new Syncrowave 200 retails for $2900, a new Syncrowave 210 retails for 3200, a new Dynasty 200DX with torch, regulator, foot pedal, etc., retails for $5100. On the used market, the Dynasty 200 welders are hard to find, and priced around $3000. The Syncrowaves are easier to find used, and priced right.

    The Syncrowave 250 is an industry classic, a great machine, but big and heavy, and more expensive. It should probably have a 100 amp 220V circuit, especially if you want to get full power out of it. The 250 is just more welder than most folks need, unless you need to TIG 1/4 inch thick aluminum.


    Richard



    Quote Originally Posted by Mv7fd View Post
    I'm looking to buy my first tig welder and I'm looking at the diversion 165 and the syncrowave 200 and 210 anyone have any good bad or ugly feed back on these machines

  2. #12

    Default

    What makes Invertigs crap? They are a cleaner, more affordable machine that puts out more max amps and a higher duty cycle with more options and HTP has second to none customer service. What is your support behind the statement? Do you repair HTPs also? Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    OK, the Invertigs are crap, I do lincoln warranty. Miller 165/185 are great, but I'd be looking at a Thermalarc 186TS or 201TS. Somewhat less expensive and longer warranty. Easy to learn on.

  3. #13

    Default

    I amy be a bit naive after only having used their migs but it is difficult to find any bad comments about HTP besides yours. Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    OK, the Invertigs are crap, I do lincoln warranty. Miller 165/185 are great, but I'd be looking at a Thermalarc 186TS or 201TS. Somewhat less expensive and longer warranty. Easy to learn on.

  4. #14

    Default **** with budget

    Dynasty 200 DX, sell your wife and kids, whatever.
    =======================
    Miller 211 AutoSet
    Miller Dynasty 200 DX
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 42

    "The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters"
    Francisco Goya

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    st-eustache qc.canada
    Posts
    198

    Question Misspelling...i think.

    JerseyWelder JerseyWelder is offline
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    35
    Default
    What makes Invertigs crap? They are a cleaner, more affordable machine that puts out more max amps and a higher duty cycle with more options and HTP has second to none customer service. What is your support behind the statement? Do you repair HTPs also? Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    OK, the Invertigs are crap, I do lincoln warranty. Miller 165/185 are great, but I'd be looking at a Thermalarc 186TS or 201TS. Somewhat less expensive and longer warranty. Easy to learn on.


    I think he meant invertec from lincoln, never he mentioned HTP...

    Cruiser, more than a year ago recommended to another poster a thermal arc plasma , that was enough to make me buy one, i am extremely happy about it;o)

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,621

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyWelder View Post
    I amy be a bit naive after only having used their migs but it is difficult to find any bad comments about HTP besides yours. Dave

    Lincoln small tigs made in Italy and Poland = Crap

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,057

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    Lincoln small tigs made in Italy and Poland = Crap
    Aren't some of those same machines in Yellow and marketed here as ESAB's??

    out of the same factories anyway..?
    Last edited by H80N; 10-26-2013 at 04:27 PM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  8. #18

    Default

    I apologize to cruizer than for my comments. Thought he was referring to the HTP invertigs.....I have heard nothing but praise about them. Dave PS....I like to support America but If the best is made elsewhere I always want the best.I will not buy American just because it's American...
    Quote Originally Posted by H80N View Post
    Aren't some of those same machines in Yellow and marketed here as ESAB's??

    out of the same factories anyway..?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    7

    Default Looking for my first tig

    I can buy a 210 if I want money isn't the problem it don't really know how much I will actually need it because I haven't had a need for it yet. I just want a good tig welder that will last me and I like the idea of a stick also

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyWelder View Post
    ... HTP invertigs.....I have heard nothing but praise about them...
    I haven't heard anything bad about them either. However, I haven't been able to find too many individuals who actually own them. ChuckE2009 has one that was given or loaned to him by HTP.

    He said the H stands for Hungary. Given that, I doubt if some European country can make something that is comparable to 200DX for over a thousand bucks less. They must've skimped somewhere. Perhaps it's the lack of a forum and repair service at your LWS.

    On the other hand look at how many 200 DX owners there are on this forum as well as the number of them in welding schools. There is without a doubt a large user base, and from those users you only hear praise.

    I haven't bought a TIG machine yet, but I will get a lot of hood time with a 200DX in my TIG class next term, and I imagine it is all it's cracked up to be. With a 200DX you know you have a machine that the pros use, and you will not have any neurosis or buyer's remorse later on.

    I've looked at all of them and went through what the OP is going through. In the end I think I have to go the distance and get a 200 DX and be done with it.
    Last edited by Arizona Joe; 10-28-2013 at 11:13 AM.

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