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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cave Creek Az
    Posts
    948

    Default

    Ditto checking the liner. Try this; run the wire through the liner, do not close the rolls. Grab the wire at either end with a pair of needle nose pliers, and push back and forth through the liner. It should be very easy to feed with a straight gun. Form the cable in a loop and feel the change in force required to feed it, now screw on the front end consumables and feel the difference. Also, check the liner for size. I had tons of trouble with Bernard liners feeding 035 wire, through an 035-052 (iirc) liner. The wire would zig zag inside the liner, and I had major feeding issues for a long time before I figured it out.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,447

    Default

    OK, didn't read all the posts, buttttt, that machine never came with a 15' gun. Some never have a problem pushing wire through it, but most do. What you HAVE TO DO is, get yourself a single knurled drive roller, of the size of wire your using. Install it and don't crank the tenstioner down much. This will save your drive motor from baking itself and reduce your stress levels. Do not install both knurled , ONLY one....


    This is what I do as a service tech

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Salem ,Ohio
    Posts
    3,894

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    OK, didn't read all the posts, buttttt, that machine never came with a 15' gun.
    They do now...


    Larger Work Area

    Now with longer 15-ft M-25 gun.
    ...Bob
    Bob Wright, Grandson of Tee Nee Boat Trailer Founder
    Metal Master Fab Salem, Oh 44460
    Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drill
    1999 MM185 w/185 Spoolgun,1986 Thunderbolt AC/DC
    Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Ocala Fl.
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Jeep grill.jpgMy 252 came with a M-25 Gun, the unit is 4months old.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,447

    Default

    Unsure, though the last time I measured a M-25 it was 12', The extra 3' just kills the motor, ie, the use of a knurled roll.

    A 4 roll is 15', 2 rolls are 12' as far as I know...
    Last edited by cruizer; 08-10-2013 at 12:48 PM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    Unsure, though the last time I measured a M-25 it was 12', The extra 3' just kills the motor, ie, the use of a knurled roll.

    A 4 roll is 15', 2 rolls are 12' as far as I know...
    I put a 15' M25 on my MM210, and it feeds fine with the factory rollers. Actually, Miller sells the M25 in 10', 12' and 1`5' models.

    http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...s/migmatic.php

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,447

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cope View Post
    I put a 15' M25 on my MM210, and it feeds fine with the factory rollers. Actually, Miller sells the M25 in 10', 12' and 1`5' models.

    http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...s/migmatic.php
    Till ya twist the cord a little or something you have to get up and over, twists and turns. I deal with the industrial guys exclusively. And this is how I fix it. Zero problems. Just a thought.....

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Salem ,Ohio
    Posts
    3,894

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by cruizer View Post
    Till ya twist the cord a little or something you have to get up and over, twists and turns. I deal with the industrial guys exclusively. And this is how I fix it. Zero problems. Just a thought.....
    The worst engineered thing about the MM252 is the downward pointing cable. If you work on a bench or up in the air like i do it always has a kink where it comes from the machine no matter how long the lead is. Miller had a write up a while ago agout the easier to load wire because the of tilt and i think its harder. The MM251's we have are much better. We have close to 50 of each machine all with 15' guns and i would take a 251 any day. Pushing 15' of .045 gas flux core is quite a challenge on some jobs, lots of time wasted fixing wire stuck in the tip or birds nests on the wire in the drive with the 252 the 251's don't seem as bad. Just my rant...Bob
    Bob Wright, Grandson of Tee Nee Boat Trailer Founder
    Metal Master Fab Salem, Oh 44460
    Birthplace of the Silver & Deming Drill
    1999 MM185 w/185 Spoolgun,1986 Thunderbolt AC/DC
    Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    184

    Default

    My new 252 came with a 15' M-25 gun. I use the .030 rollers with the 194-011 liner (.030/.035) that came with the machine and it feeds properly. I did have an issue when I first fired it up last month. I discovered that the rollers were not lined up. I adjusted them so that the notches were perfectly in line and the problem went away.

    I presume that everyone here has seen the test in the manual for proper roller tension on page 22. That's the one where the gun is held near to a piece of wood on a slight angle and the trigger is pulled. The wire should coil up. I tried that and got the coil on the second try.

    The downward angle of the gun mount isn't a problem for me. I have welded with a friend's 250 and it has the gun mount that goes into the front of the machine horizontally. Either way would be OK with me.
    Miller Syncrowave 200
    Milermatic 252
    Lincoln AC/DC "Tombstone"

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    720

    Default

    Hey Guys,
    Thanks for all the replies. I was aware of the "block of wood test" for setting the roller tension and that is exactly what my machine would not do even with the tensioner tightened all the way. I also realized that this would destroy the feed motor. I took the suggestions and started from there. When I adjusted the roller alignment I was able to back off the tension and still get proper feeding against a block of wood. So in this case the alignment was off and you could see that it was quite easily when viewing the roller from the top of the machine. Cruizer, the knurled roller makes sense, I will do some research and post the part number for anyone who might need it. As an aside my MM252 came with a 12' M-25 gun and I replaced it with a 15' Bernard 300 amp gun. Again thanks for the advice.
    Nick

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