Miller Electric

Welding Discussion Forums

Home » Resources » Communities » Welding Discussion Forums
 
Miller Welding Discussion Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 23

Thread: Am I Liable

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,168

    Default

    Probably too late, but here goes.

    If galvinizing or any coating at all was not in your work agreement, how are you responsible?

    Next, electrogalvinize is crap. It should have been sandblasted and hot dip galvinized. Again not your problem, but you can point a finger.

    I would work with the customer, tell him that, and then ask for records of the finishing work. Probably the customer is just looking for options. And remind him that next time, you will be using stainless steel.

    Did you do the final install? If so you might just be liable.
    Nothing welded, Nothing gained

    Miller Dynasty700DX
    3 ea. Miller Dynasty350DX
    Miller Dynasty200DX
    ThermalArc 400 GTSW
    MillerMatic350P
    MillerMatic200 with spoolgun
    MKCobraMig260
    Lincoln SP-170T
    Linde UCC305 (sold 2011)
    Hypertherm 1250
    Hypertherm 800
    PlasmaCam CNC cutter
    Fadal Toolroom CNC Mill
    SiberHegner CNC Mill
    2 ea. Bridgeport
    LeBlond 15" Lathe
    Haberle 18" Cold Saw
    Doringer 14" Cold Saw
    6 foot x 12 foot Mojave granite

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Salem, NJ
    Posts
    271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Did you do the final install? If so you might just be liable.
    You can fabricate bad railings and be fine. You can sell bad railings and be fine. But if you install a bad railing, your screwed!

    This is true, but they might also be looking for a way to get you to fix it on your dime and not theirs. This would fall under the clause of, if it works great, if it doesn't, we didn't lose anything.


    I would first find out if ANY kind of engineer/arct worked on it. If they did then some type of finish would have been called for. Even if it was drawn by a company and not used. If they just "rigged" an idea into a thought, into a proposal, into a job then have then show that they told you what finish would have gone on it.

    Also, this is why I like email. It gives everything a third party time/date stamp.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Idaho
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Would you go to an attorney for welding advice? So why would you go to welders for legal advice?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    northern NJ
    Posts
    1,853

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeswelding View Post
    Would you go to an attorney for welding advice? So why would you go to welders for legal advice?
    Because someone might have had a similar situation & could offer some advice. Maybe a way to handle it without lawyers involved? Most time lawyers are the only ones who win.
    MM250
    Trailblazer 250g
    22a feeder
    Lincoln ac/dc 225
    Victor O/A
    MM200 black face
    Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
    Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
    Arco roto-phase model M
    Vectrax 7x12 band saw
    Miller spectrum 875
    30a spoolgun w/wc-24
    Syncrowave 250
    RCCS-14

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Milan Michigan
    Posts
    1,721

    Default

    Thanks for every ones input.

    Mikes Welding, I did contact an attorney friend, but just as MMW said, I would like to know if any of you have run into this type of a problem and if so what did you do so I can pass info onto my attorney.

    Shovelan, Yes I did the finish product, I rebuilt it the same way that it was originally built back in the 70s.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Idaho
    Posts
    203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    Thanks for every ones input.

    Mikes Welding, I did contact an attorney friend, but just as MMW said, I would like to know if any of you have run into this type of a problem and if so what did you do so I can pass info onto my attorney.

    Shovelan, Yes I did the finish product, I rebuilt it the same way that it was originally built back in the 70s.
    My apologies if I sounded a bit snarky. It's just that with legal matters, even similar incidents have little bearing on your situation because there are so many variables. But yes, it does help to have input from others.

    Keep on welding.

  7. #17

    Default Am I Liable

    It's not your fault it's rusting, it's mother natures fault! If someone falls because of a broken weld, you can be liable!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    312

    Default

    Have you contacted your material provider? That would be my first reaction. If the provider is willing to stand behind their product then your butt is covered, except for the cost of your labor and that will be something to negotiate with the provider.

    The upside of getting the provider involved is they have the legal expertise you need. They have to defend their products daily and have all the arguments.

    It also gives your customer someone to go after with much deeper pockets than yours.

    I am in the middle of a minor skirmish with my galvanizer at this point. They have the arguments down pat but we both understand it is not unlike buying a used car, arguments are negotiations.

  9. #19

    Default

    Not being more than a hobby welder I can not comment on the welding aspects of this situation. However having been sued in the past in a product liability case I can tell you that Mikeswelding's advice while it might have sounded snarky is spot on.
    What I learned from being sued is this-and it is what most people myself included do not know. Under 'tort law' which is the civil law most states follow is the FRENCH court model- where you are automatically guilty and have to prove your innocence vs ENGLISH law that we use for criminal law. So if something fails it is assumed defective and YOU have to prove it was not.
    The fact stated about some vs all galvanizing in a court room would show prior knowledge of a potential problem (aka defect) and it was not addressed. What would typically happen is the jury would rule in the favor of the plantiff- if they believed you wanted it galvanized-but were over ruled both of you would be found guilty and in my state they would also determine percentage of responsibility. So if the person over ruling you had more responsibility for the project they would be assigned a higher percentage of 'guilty' and pay more in the settlement but you will also pay something for your neglect and liability.
    Bottom line is -if it goes to court it will cost you something. That is the bad news- the good news is if you are insured most times they (insurance company thru their lawyer) will try to settle out of court, no one likes to go in front of a jury-too unpredictable. While you may prevail and be found not guilty in front of jury, most likely they will award something. Insurance company wants to control how much they pay out. Likewise the plaintiffs lawyer wants to know he is getting something for his client and settling out of court-prevents a jury from lowballing.
    So best of luck if it goes to court hopefully some kind of solution can be reached between all parties. You most definitely want to talk to a lawyer to help reduce your exposure for future jobs and develop a means to better protect yourself.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Idaho
    Posts
    203

    Default

    131RE is right about tort law. In fact, the word "tort" is French for "wrong or harm."

    With regard to lowering one's risk profile (and do not take this as legal advice), I always included wording on my invoices that stated explicitly that the work was done "as specified by the Buyer" or "in accordance with design specifications." Therefore, if you are not an engineer or architect by training, then under tort law it would be exceedingly difficult to be found negligent.

    You can go even further by disclaiming any warranty, express or implied, as to the suitability of the work.

    However, as always, check with an attorney for the best "disclaimer" language.

    Also, as 131RE stated, any legal action is going to go in search of "deep pockets," and most small welding outfits I know would not fit that description.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Warning: Function split() is deprecated in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/footer.inc.php on line 82

Welding Projects

Special Offers: See the latest Miller deals and promotions.