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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Default Welding 4130 tubes .156 wall thickness pre/post heat...

    Does anybody have experience with 4130 chromoly tubing?
    I'm going to weld chassis out of .156 wall thickness and I'm wondering if pre and post heating is crucial?
    I found on Internet that chromoly tube that are thicker then .120 should be pre and post heated... Thank you for any input...
    DYNASTY 350 DX
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    1942 MONARCH CK-12 LATHE
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  2. #2
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    Default

    There is a ton to know to weld chromo properly. If you are asking this I would recommend you get a professional to weld this or use mild steel instead. Many racing bodies are not even certifying chromo chassis nowadays due to the high complexity and very high chance of improper welding. Especially if you have no welding certs, which seems may be the case.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgotto6 View Post
    There is a ton to know to weld chromo properly. If you are asking this I would recommend you get a professional to weld this or use mild steel instead. Many racing bodies are not even certifying chromo chassis nowadays due to the high complexity and very high chance of improper welding. Especially if you have no welding certs, which seems may be the case.
    Thank you for kind reply.
    I've been tig welding for few years now so I think I can do it, ain't rocket science right? Just tube welding that need some attention with applying heat.

    This is supposed to be support forum not discourage forum.
    And btw I'm stick,mig and tig certified welder.

    Anybody else with some helpful tips? Thank you.
    DYNASTY 350 DX
    DYNASTY 200 DX
    MILLERMATIC 251
    1942 MONARCH CK-12 LATHE
    1969 BRIDGEPORT J-2 HEAD MILL
    SCOTCHMAN 350 COLD SAW
    DAKE 200 BENDER
    BEAUMONT METALWORKS KMG BELT GRINDER

  4. #4
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    Wa
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    Default

    Just saying that no local sanctioning bodies in my area will approve a chromo chassis unless engineering and a reputable fabrication shop can prove the entire chassis has been normalized post welding. Aka only very top dollar teams can do it. Besides pretty much every form of racing now days has weights that everybody ballasts up to, so why even hassle/risk with chromo when mild is cheap and easy. But good luck if you decide to go for it. What application, sanctioning body, and region are you building it for?

    And btw, this is a support forum. Supporting you so you don't end up with a few grand a scrap when you don't pass tech. Figured since you had to look on the internets to learn about basic characteristics of chromoly it was over your head.
    Last edited by Cgotto6; 04-24-2013 at 08:41 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
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    107

    Default

    Any particular reason for using .156"?
    It seems a very thick tube wall thickness especially when you are using Cr/MO.
    As a comparison, the Sprintcar chassis' we repair, the tube thicknesses for the main top rails are only .095" and the rest of the chassis varies from .083", .065" and .049".
    The main reason to use 4130 over CDW tubing is for the weight benefit where you can use thinner tubing to do the same work.
    Don't be put of using 4130, it's just a nice high grade steel and it's really easy to weld.
    Lots of guys post negative info regarding 4130 without any experience in it.
    We've got lots of experience with it and we don't have any problems with welding it. You can even Mig weld it if you want to, LW1 Mig wire at ER70 S6 is well within the acceptable range of welding wires.
    I often cut down Mig wire for some really small welds when required.
    Regards Andrew from Oz.
    We are tig welders, gravity doesn't worry us.

    Miller Dynasty 350 Tig.
    OTC AVP300 AC/DC 300 amp hybrid wave Tig. (now retired)
    Kemppi MLS 2300 230amp AC/DC Tig for home with all the bells and whistles.

  6. #6
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    Jul 2009
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    Australia
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    Default

    I have TIG welded a fair few CrMO bike frames and have read thousands of pages on the subject. I have even contacted and had a tour of a heat treating works here in Brisbane that has an oven large enough to treat a semitrailer to futher my knowledge.
    I am no expert on the subject but know quite alot.
    Before any help can be given you must explain the application completely.

    Ji
    Grip it and Rip it

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by awill4x4 View Post
    Any particular reason for using .156"?
    It seems a very thick tube wall thickness especially when you are using Cr/MO.
    As a comparison, the Sprintcar chassis' we repair, the tube thicknesses for the main top rails are only .095" and the rest of the chassis varies from .083", .065" and .049".
    The main reason to use 4130 over CDW tubing is for the weight benefit where you can use thinner tubing to do the same work.
    Don't be put of using 4130, it's just a nice high grade steel and it's really easy to weld.
    Lots of guys post negative info regarding 4130 without any experience in it.
    We've got lots of experience with it and we don't have any problems with welding it. You can even Mig weld it if you want to, LW1 Mig wire at ER70 S6 is well within the acceptable range of welding wires.
    I often cut down Mig wire for some really small welds when required.
    Regards Andrew from Oz.
    Andrew thank you for reply and tips...
    Main reason I'm using chromoly and thick as .156 is...
    I'm building rigid frames for my choppers thru the years now, I used to use low carbon tubing and never head problems with cracking, now, here in NYC roads are notorious with pot holes and bad condition so our bikes takes lots of beating and since frames are rigid not suspended it happens sometimes that frame cracks...
    For example I have customer comes to my shop with $70.000 Jesse James West Coast Chopper cracked on several places after bikes has been ridden in NYC for 5 years...
    As well not only safety is what I'm concern but, these bikes cost lots of money to be build, paint job or exotic plating like nickel or chrome cost lots of money to do on frame, so if frame cracks there's lots of work and money to be invested.
    So this is the reason why I went with with thick chromoly, these bikes don't need to be light since they have lots of torque and are not performance vehicles so little bit overkill in chromoly tubing can safe lots of money and trouble down the road.
    And to mention that if these bikes are ridden in not such a harsh road conditions they would be fine and free of cracks for a lifetime.

    Thank you, Iliya from Steelborn Choppers NYC.
    DYNASTY 350 DX
    DYNASTY 200 DX
    MILLERMATIC 251
    1942 MONARCH CK-12 LATHE
    1969 BRIDGEPORT J-2 HEAD MILL
    SCOTCHMAN 350 COLD SAW
    DAKE 200 BENDER
    BEAUMONT METALWORKS KMG BELT GRINDER

  8. #8
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    Feb 2012
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    Wa
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    Default

    You will notice he said an oven large enough to fit a semi trailer into...so do you have an over to heat treat the *entire* chassis after fab? That's the critical part here.

  9. #9
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    Wa
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    Default

    Hey I'm sorry for my posts. What I was saying does not apply to what your talking about. I saw your avatar and figured you must be talking about a race car... Don't usually hear a bike frame being referred to as a chassis. My mistake.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgotto6 View Post
    Hey I'm sorry for my posts. What I was saying does not apply to what your talking about. I saw your avatar and figured you must be talking about a race car... Don't usually hear a bike frame being referred to as a chassis. My mistake.
    No worries, I should be more clear in my posts as well...
    DYNASTY 350 DX
    DYNASTY 200 DX
    MILLERMATIC 251
    1942 MONARCH CK-12 LATHE
    1969 BRIDGEPORT J-2 HEAD MILL
    SCOTCHMAN 350 COLD SAW
    DAKE 200 BENDER
    BEAUMONT METALWORKS KMG BELT GRINDER

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