How does Miller 211 handle thick materials out of position? Structural H-beams

[clint738]

My first choice of wire would be .030 and gas. My second choice would be .035 gas flux core and the gas of your choice. The smaller machines do better with .030 soild...Bob

Just noticed this wire chart shows .030 solid wire is to small for over 1/8" material.
http://store.cyberweld.com/choosewire.html

So would .035 solid wire run ok for the millermatic 211 for stuff this thick?


Or would the flux core .045 work better in the 211 for materials .170 to .250" thick?

[elvis]

The consensus seems to be that the smaller machines like 030 wire. I have welded thicker than .125 material with 030 wire with success. I think there is a difference between what is on paper and the real world...


Btw, got your pm and will get back to you tomorrow.

[A_DAB_will_do]

Yes, the difference is, in my opionion, that using 0.030" wire on thick base metal runs an increased risk of lack of fusion defects. This particular case, welding 1/8" thick sheet isn't too far outside the envelope for 0.030" wire. It will probably work. But I'd hate for a novice to read this and assume they can use 0.030" anywhere and believe that it will work just fine.

This is one of those gray areas that I think most welders don't fully understand.

You're not the first person I've heard comment that these smaller/mid-sized MIG machines run 0.030" wire smoother or 'better'.

While this is often true, a weld produced using a smoother running arc is not always the same as a sound weld. If the filler metal can't physically deliver enough arc energy to the puddle, then the likelihood of lack of fusion defects increases. I can produce a beautiful single pass fillet weld on 1/2" thick plate with 0.030" wire. But I'd never guarantee that there is 100% fusion into the base metal, particularly if I were weaving the arc at all.

If you haven't made a particular weld and broken it to check for 100% fusion in to the base metal, then you don't know that it's a sound weld. Since most people don't want to go to the extent of produceing test welds and breaking them, they're much better off relying on the manufacturer's recommendations for which wire diameters are suitable for a given base metal thickness.

So many people on this and other forums are all over novices for using small 110V MIG machines to weld heavy sheet or plate. But they think nothing themselves of using the smallest diameter wire possible so they can have the easiest time welding or the best looking weld bead possible.

The recommendations on appropriate wire thickness for base metal aren't just pulled out of thin air.

Yes, there is a great deal that can be done to widen the window that a given diameter wire is suitable for. Pre-heating, beveling, using stringers versus weave beads, etc. A welder can even deposit more weld metal than is strictly necessary(and most of us do this all the time).

But for the novices out there, particularly if you're working on something that is structural, load-bearing, or if the failure of a given weld could cause damage or injury, don't disregard the manufacturer's recommendations for what diameter of filler metal and what machine settings to use.

Practice and increase your skills to adapt to the settings needed to make a sound weld. Don't just dial in the machine to settings you can use to make a pretty weld bead.

Just one man's opinion, and I'll get off my soap box now...

The consensus seems to be that the smaller machines like 030 wire. I have welded thicker than .125 material with 030 wire with success. I think there is a difference between what is on paper and the real world...


Btw, got your pm and will get back to you tomorrow.

[A_DAB_will_do]

0.035" solid wire and C25 or 100% CO2 will work just fine in your MM211 on 240V. You'll see more spatter and the weld puddle will require more skill to control than it would with 0.030" wire.

0.045" gas shielded fluxcore is probably going to require more amperage and voltage than a MM211 is good for, unless you're making short welds that don't push the duty cycle. Even so, I think you're better off with 0.035" solid wire and gas or 0.035" self shielded wire.

0.035" gas shielded fluxcore will run nicely on the MM211 using 240V input power, if it produces enough voltage for the wire. The specs say 23.5V at max output, which is on the low side for gas shielded fluxcore wires in my experience.

Also, I don't know anyone selling this type of product(0.035" gas shielded fluxcore) on an 8"(10lb) spool, that fits in the MM211. When I've seen 0.035" gas shielded fluxcored wire, it's been on 33lb 12" spools or larger. If someone knows of a good source for gas shielded 0.035" on 10lb spools, please post the brand name.

Thanks.

Just noticed this wire chart shows .030 solid wire is to small for over 1/8" material.
http://store.cyberweld.com/choosewire.html

So would .035 solid wire run ok for the millermatic 211 for stuff this thick?


Or would the flux core .045 work better in the 211 for materials .170 to .250" thick?

[clint738]

A_DAB_will_do,

Thank you for your input. The reason I come here is for input from professionals who do this for a living. I don't care if .035" wire is harder to run, if it what is required to have proper penetration, then I will learn to use it.

My millermatic 140 I sold I always used .030 wire, but I don't see how thicker wire will be much harder since it is just laying down more wire at once.

I do plan on destructive testing my welds. Any tips on how to do this? Will probably want to test them with 1/4" plate since it will be close to the H-beam thicknesses.

[clint738]

Also, I don't know anyone selling this type of product(0.035" gas shielded fluxcore) on an 8"(10lb) spool, that fits in the MM211. When I've seen 0.035" gas shielded fluxcored wire, it's been on 33lb 12" spools or larger. If someone knows of a good source for gas shielded 0.035" on 10lb spools, please post the brand name.

Thanks.

Is not all Fluxcore the same?

I thought it was referred to as Gasless welding wire? Is there a type of fluxcore that you do shield with gas?

I did find this in .035 fluxcore in the 10# spool. Is this what your searching for?
http://store.cyberweld.com/hoe7gawewi10.html

It is Hobart brand:
Hobart E71T-11 Gasless Welding Wire - 10# Spool H222106-R22

It's funny the .030 wire actually cost more. Sure its more wraps of wire on the spool, but it will still have to be 10lbs worth.

If I go with flux-core I will probably buy it from cyberweld or from my local Tractor Supply that carries this:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...on-steel-10-lb

If I go with solid .035 wire I will go with this since I can buy local:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...on-steel-10-lb

[Cgotto6]

.030 works great all the way to 5/16. At least in my experience. You compensate the wire diameter when you dial the wire feed in. Smaller wire=more wire speed for same weld type on same material. Wire diameters overlap a lot in what they work for. I use .030 on 20gauge-5/16 with great results. If I am going to do a lot of sheet, or over 5/16 ill actually take the time to change out the spool.

[aametalmaster]

Is not all Fluxcore the same?

I thought it was referred to as Gasless welding wire? Is there a type of fluxcore that you do shield with gas?

Gasless fluxcore is FCAW. + ground and _ gun.
Gas fluxcore is GMAW the same + _ settings as solid wire. Or known as Dual Shield wire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCAW

I run ESAB .045 gas fluxcore all day everyday either with CO2 or 75/25. The 75/25 will fry my gun if i run too many volts so i stay under 23.3 or so plus i am only welding 1/4" pipe...Bob

[clint738]

Gasless fluxcore is FCAW. + ground and _ gun.
Gas fluxcore is GMAW the same + _ settings as solid wire. Or known as Dual Shield wire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCAW

I run ESAB .045 gas fluxcore all day everyday either with CO2 or 75/25. The 75/25 will fry my gun if i run too many volts so i stay under 23.3 or so plus i am only welding 1/4" pipe...Bob

Oh ok, I have heard of Dual Shield wire. Never seen it used or used it before. I'm not really sure if the millermatic 211 would be able to handle (be hot enough) for .045 gas fluxcore wire.

Why or how will 75/25 fry your mig gun using dual shield?

Will probably purchase a new 211 this weekend or next and certainly would hate to burn up a new mig gun.

I am leaning towards running .035 solid wire with 75/25 gas to weld the structural H-beams.

[cruizer]

Pretty sure I wouldn't use the 211 for ANYTHING structural. Now the 211 should be able to push 035 mild steel, as it needs 185 amps to properly weld. However you will be pretty much maxed out voltage and wire speed (amperage). So you'll hit your duty cycle quite a bit.