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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    328

    Default switch

    I think the swich is also a circuit breaker. May be overloading or just a bad breaker/switch. My new Hobart has the same funny feeling switch. Takes about 3 pounds of pressure to turn it on and abou 1 pound to turn it off. I have never had a problem with my machine though. The switch is something new.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Thank you, everyone. There are several good suggestions here and I'll check them all this weekend, as I have some welding to do. I'll let you know next week if these fix it or not, and go from there.

    Thanks!
    -Brendon

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    12

    Default do yourself a favor- call Miller !

    Sorry, I have read so many posts where you can tell or at least it looks like people askin for help haven't even made the first step

    download owners manual
    get your serial # and stock # off the machine

    and call Miller Tech Support Line 920-734-9821
    (once again make sure you request someone specialized in your welding machine division example.. wire feed, tig, stick, engine driven)

    This is all gathered from personal experience and some is personal opinion as well as approx prices, and examples of what can go wrong and what it may cost to get it back up and running--( I haven't had any experience dealing with other machine brands Tech support ) just sayin--- do some homework and see what you find out, I'm sure you will get to the bottom of it and most likely a lot faster then you would have ever believed by a simple phone call. and spreading your info/test info and visual inspection findings amongst the forums...

    I would like to say that people on the Millerwelds forum as well as Weldingwebs forum have also been of great help. Even if you don't get the help you wanted on your post its likely if you search the forums you may find something that helps you that way as well.

    I'm not saying doing it yourself is for everyone or that it is safe for your typical user and or customer, though I would like to say some of these machines are not as complicated as a person might think expecially when you do some research via forums and internet in general. Then get a little Guidance from Tech support at Miller, I was very impressed with Miller's Tech Service Support Staff's helpful nature and knowledge of product, I know of no other company that will help a person this much even when their product is out of warranty.

    First of all it doesn't hurt to read the manual so please do so at the least, before opening up the machine. unplug the machine, etc if you need to ask I'm sure someone here will go into much more detail.... oh and a digital volt meter will be your friend through out diagnosis

    (Servicing a welding machine is Dangerous if you don't use a little common sense and get a little knowledge of how to go about it before opening it up, so you can do so in a safer manner)


    Hey,

    Don't make the mistake that many people do and, forget that Miller Customer service is only a phone call away, its not a 1-800 call but, who doesn't have a cell phone these days? to use for such a call.....(even if your machine is old)

    -have your Serial # ready and stock # , download your owners manual and print out any board diagrams, and main welding machine diagram, board parts listing
    (don't know if your year model provides this but mine sure did, and its A FREE download from millerwelds.com)

    -have those print outs ready so that you and the Tech can go over exactly what he or she thinks is causing your failure, this way you will both be lookin at close to the same information at the same time.

    -for example if its a board issue, they will likely identify which one and if you catch em on a good day may even walk you though circuit diagram and show you what component on the board is most likely to be causing this failure.

    -from there you can choose to gamble/go cheap and hope to repair it by fixing just that component in circuit, or send the board off for repair at a pcb repair shop(big difference here is they have the test equipment and knowledge of the board to properly test it after repairing it, so big plus there! (by reading the forums I've seen it said that they have approx 60% chance that they will be able to do the repair depending on what it is and damage that it has taken), last option would be buy the New board from Miller and either one- the repaired board or New one I would think should be installed by a Miller Service Center if you want any kinda warranty.

    The Difference :

    -option #1 probably under $100 but yer just gambling, depending on yer situation and what board yer dealing with/ what components you need and scope of work. by a local electronics and or TV Repair shop,or people that service large amps for Public Address systems and or Concert Equipment, they can get the electronic components or you can find them yourself Newark.com or Digikey.com

    -option #2 probably close to $200- $500 If they are able to repair it, you should probably add approx. $ 100 to the bill for a Service Center to install it so you get some warranty( I have not verified this but I'm sure you could before you spend the money)

    -option #3 probably close to $250- $1,000 + depending on what you need and age of the machine I'm sure... and then add what ever the Service Center Charges you to install it, also I'm sure you may have to go through the Service Center to get the part so the price is likely some additional $ added for you to buy it from them mark up/profit/etc..

    Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not trying to hurt millers profit's or all the Service shops around the world. though the fact that people are on the forum asking for help is indication enough that they would like to stay away from the service shop prices and attempt repair themselves if at all possible, before being faced with letting a shop do the service. there are people that can afford to throw money at machines in a service shop and there are others that its either not cost effective or they can't afford to go that route at this time. thankfully Miller Tech support is there for us at no charge with helpful info to at least assist with pin pointing whats going on and approx price of part to repair it minus shipping fees, installation fees or service center mark up of course. As well as, Millerwelds forum and weldingweb these too are great assests provided to use at no cost other than your time to do the research and properly show them pic's serial # etc of whats going on and. its very likely you'll come out with a favorable outcome. Basically I've been helped by all of these places listed and my purpose is to attempt to help others with the limited knowledge that I have with these machines compared to a person like cruiser and there are many others out there I'm sure, just listing the resident forum rock star here lol. It's wise to get as much information from as many sources that are able to help you as possible, and go from there.

    Yeah this has been rediculously long, I know. Yet if this helps one person perhaps it will help others too, at least understand what they are going to be dealing with.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowiz View Post
    Sorry, I have read so many posts where you can tell or at least it looks like people askin for help haven't even made the first step

    download owners manual
    get your serial # and stock # off the machine

    and call Miller Tech Support Line 920-734-9821
    (once again make sure you request someone specialized in your welding machine division example.. wire feed, tig, stick, engine driven)

    This is all gathered from personal experience and some is personal opinion as well as approx prices, and examples of what can go wrong and what it may cost to get it back up and running--( I haven't had any experience dealing with other machine brands Tech support ) just sayin--- do some homework and see what you find out, I'm sure you will get to the bottom of it and most likely a lot faster then you would have ever believed by a simple phone call. and spreading your info/test info and visual inspection findings amongst the forums...

    I would like to say that people on the Millerwelds forum as well as Weldingwebs forum have also been of great help. Even if you don't get the help you wanted on your post its likely if you search the forums you may find something that helps you that way as well.

    I'm not saying doing it yourself is for everyone or that it is safe for your typical user and or customer, though I would like to say some of these machines are not as complicated as a person might think expecially when you do some research via forums and internet in general. Then get a little Guidance from Tech support at Miller, I was very impressed with Miller's Tech Service Support Staff's helpful nature and knowledge of product, I know of no other company that will help a person this much even when their product is out of warranty.

    First of all it doesn't hurt to read the manual so please do so at the least, before opening up the machine. unplug the machine, etc if you need to ask I'm sure someone here will go into much more detail.... oh and a digital volt meter will be your friend through out diagnosis

    (Servicing a welding machine is Dangerous if you don't use a little common sense and get a little knowledge of how to go about it before opening it up, so you can do so in a safer manner)


    Hey,

    Don't make the mistake that many people do and, forget that Miller Customer service is only a phone call away, its not a 1-800 call but, who doesn't have a cell phone these days? to use for such a call.....(even if your machine is old)

    -have your Serial # ready and stock # , download your owners manual and print out any board diagrams, and main welding machine diagram, board parts listing
    (don't know if your year model provides this but mine sure did, and its A FREE download from millerwelds.com)

    -have those print outs ready so that you and the Tech can go over exactly what he or she thinks is causing your failure, this way you will both be lookin at close to the same information at the same time.

    -for example if its a board issue, they will likely identify which one and if you catch em on a good day may even walk you though circuit diagram and show you what component on the board is most likely to be causing this failure.

    -from there you can choose to gamble/go cheap and hope to repair it by fixing just that component in circuit, or send the board off for repair at a pcb repair shop(big difference here is they have the test equipment and knowledge of the board to properly test it after repairing it, so big plus there! (by reading the forums I've seen it said that they have approx 60% chance that they will be able to do the repair depending on what it is and damage that it has taken), last option would be buy the New board from Miller and either one- the repaired board or New one I would think should be installed by a Miller Service Center if you want any kinda warranty.

    The Difference :

    -option #1 probably under $100 but yer just gambling, depending on yer situation and what board yer dealing with/ what components you need and scope of work. by a local electronics and or TV Repair shop,or people that service large amps for Public Address systems and or Concert Equipment, they can get the electronic components or you can find them yourself Newark.com or Digikey.com

    -option #2 probably close to $200- $500 If they are able to repair it, you should probably add approx. $ 100 to the bill for a Service Center to install it so you get some warranty( I have not verified this but I'm sure you could before you spend the money)

    -option #3 probably close to $250- $1,000 + depending on what you need and age of the machine I'm sure... and then add what ever the Service Center Charges you to install it, also I'm sure you may have to go through the Service Center to get the part so the price is likely some additional $ added for you to buy it from them mark up/profit/etc..

    Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not trying to hurt millers profit's or all the Service shops around the world. though the fact that people are on the forum asking for help is indication enough that they would like to stay away from the service shop prices and attempt repair themselves if at all possible, before being faced with letting a shop do the service. there are people that can afford to throw money at machines in a service shop and there are others that its either not cost effective or they can't afford to go that route at this time. thankfully Miller Tech support is there for us at no charge with helpful info to at least assist with pin pointing whats going on and approx price of part to repair it minus shipping fees, installation fees or service center mark up of course. As well as, Millerwelds forum and weldingweb these too are great assests provided to use at no cost other than your time to do the research and properly show them pic's serial # etc of whats going on and. its very likely you'll come out with a favorable outcome. Basically I've been helped by all of these places listed and my purpose is to attempt to help others with the limited knowledge that I have with these machines compared to a person like cruiser and there are many others out there I'm sure, just listing the resident forum rock star here lol. It's wise to get as much information from as many sources that are able to help you as possible, and go from there.

    Yeah this has been rediculously long, I know. Yet if this helps one person perhaps it will help others too, at least understand what they are going to be dealing with.

    You are correct- I haven not yet called Miller. I thought I'd try asking others on the board here first, in case they have had similar experiences, or know what's going on. Sometimes it's a simple fix. Like I said, the temp light hasn't turned on, so I know I'm not overheating the unit. And everything suggested has been logical and easy to do/ check. Believe me, I paid too much for this equipment to just start monkeying with it. If the first few tricks don't work, I will be on the phone with them.

    FWIW I did download the manual, checked the trouble shooting guide and had no success.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    12

    Default miller tech support suggestion

    No disrespect intended by the way... it sounds like I may have offended you, that wasn't my intention. I merely meant that whether it is machine related or user error they are there for you with info right now, not days later, and who doesn't like that lol..oh and you won't be talkin to someone in INDIA china etc. you'll be speakin with red blooded American's. Try getting some help from DELL and being out of warranty or still under warranty, yer only choice is to deal with people from INDIA etc lol.. that are only able to search a knowledge base on the computer much like these forums and answer your questions with that, rather than actually knowing the product and exactly how it works all the way down to the circuitry ( huge difference in customer service ) and they actually expect you to pay yearly for poor DELL customer service like that. Sadly it seems the way of things these days. I hope WE soon wise up and stop such rediculous practices. Oh and by all means as I said its wise to put the word out there and make use of all forums that pertain to welding machines, doesn't hurt. Thats what they are here for and I'm glad they are provided as well at no charge!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowiz View Post
    No disrespect intended by the way... it sounds like I may have offended you, that wasn't my intention. I merely meant that whether it is machine related or user error they are there for you with info right now, not days later, and who doesn't like that lol..oh and you won't be talkin to someone in INDIA china etc. you'll be speakin with red blooded American's. Try getting some help from DELL and being out of warranty or still under warranty, yer only choice is to deal with people from INDIA etc lol.. that are only able to search a knowledge base on the computer much like these forums and answer your questions with that, rather than actually knowing the product and exactly how it works all the way down to the circuitry ( huge difference in customer service ) and they actually expect you to pay yearly for poor DELL customer service like that. Sadly it seems the way of things these days. I hope WE soon wise up and stop such rediculous practices. Oh and by all means as I said its wise to put the word out there and make use of all forums that pertain to welding machines, doesn't hurt. Thats what they are here for and I'm glad they are provided as well at no charge!

    It's all good, not offended here. And I do appreciate your reply and you taking the time to reply. I just wanted to give the forums a chance first before having to take it in to an authorized service repair place and having to pay (plus time down) for a diagnose & repair that perhaps could have been solved for free on a forum. Unfortunately for me, none of the suggestions solved my situation, my machine still turns itself off, so I will be calling them and likely be taking it in somewhere for a repair. One thing I did notice today is a slight humm, a noise I hadn't noticed before. Perhaps it's shorting out somewhow? A short would explain the shutting off.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    10

    Default Update #1

    OK, a little update on my welder. I took it to my local authorized Miller repair and they were unable to find anything wrong. They said they tested it and it works fine....

    Additionally, I double checked my outlet and the connections were nice and tight. No noticeable burn marks, etc. The outlet is actually newer than the welder, so I having my doubts that there is any fault with this, but I bought a new outlet tonight anyhow and will install it tomorrow morning. Maybe it's something I can't see? I don't have any other product to test by plugging it into my outlet, but the circuit is shared by my air compressor (not at the same time, of course. I turn off my compressor before welding) and the compressor runs fine. It has never had a hiccup.


    The only thing I can think to do now is the following:

    1- replace the outlet.
    2- Use the welder and see if it happens again. If it does I will video tape it for record, as the shop didn't get it to fail as it has for me.
    3- If/ when it fails again then I will need to take my welder to another 220v power source and try it. If it fails again, then it's proof positive that it is the welder. If it doesn't fail, then it's proof positive it's my wiring.

  8. #18

    Default

    What size wire is on the outlet that you are using? What size compressor are you using? It could be that the compressor is drawing a lot less current than the welder and so it works OK. If your welder is drawing more current than the wire size is rated for, or if it is a very long run from the breaker panel, there could be a voltage drop that the welder is sensing and causing it to shut down.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    12

    Default just a good suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by davido30093 View Post
    What size wire is on the outlet that you are using? What size compressor are you using? It could be that the compressor is drawing a lot less current than the welder and so it works OK. If your welder is drawing more current than the wire size is rated for, or if it is a very long run from the breaker panel, there could be a voltage drop that the welder is sensing and causing it to shut down.

    I would agree with David, and to verify what it is, you can either get someone that knows what they are doing.... check and verify your electrical work at your location as well as the wiring on your welder plug. to insure it is all up to par (to code for what you want it to do for you) I can definitely tell you depending on size of welder or air compressor, your welder is typically gonna be capable of pulling MUCH more power than a compressor that will just spike the amps on start up then level off to much less amps while running. Also understand that a residential air compressor is going to be very low tech/stupid Technically, they don't have circuit boards etc to sense anything, they simply have switches motor pump belt capacitors etc......extremely simple. a welding machine expecially things built of todays spec, when it comes to a welding machine is gonna be MUCH more complex and much more sensitive to someone doing a poor job wiring the location. Whereas, an air compressor is much more forgiving when it comes to someone providing less volts/amps and creating voltage drop, doesn't matter as much cause it has a short term spike of amp draw then lowers once it gets the motor running smooth. You should also understand that just because a breaker doesn't trip, doesn't mean you have done a electrical job properly, you can size things wrong and not trip a breaker but cause yourself a nice expensive fire at home shop, etc.. please look into that for your own piece of mind. I understand that you were trying to save money by running the machine on a outlet that was not only set up for your air compressor and not the demands of a welding machine,the machine was likely never in the picture at the time that you did this, and may have not even been safely installed for the demands of that air compressor, though It may be fine since you haven't triped a breaker or started a fire yet. Hey I'm human to and we all like to save money, some laws and codes and rules in life I would agree are nothing more than to cost you more money but there are also those that are in place to keep you from in dangering your self or equipment. So if your gonna be a do it yourselfer, at the very least USE the internet and ask people in the electrical business before attempting such things( or open your wallet and let the electrician do it, and be very clear about what you expecting to demand of this plug, show him the machine etc.. ). The Welder should be on a dedicated circuit that was installed and spec'd out for exactly that purpose. Don't get me wrong, I wish more people would do things them selves but at least do the research before doing so or be coached by a friend in that field of expertise. Please take what I said here to heart rather than take it as me disrespecting you, cause what I listed here is all true and real life stuff not someone trying to stir things up. I don't have to ask you how much you know in this field, its very obvious by your questions, so I answered them with truth and your safety in mind, and you know what doing things wrong and having to go back and buy wire etc to do the job right isnt' any cheaper than just payin a pro to do it right the first time. doing it right the first time can also be done by you just do your research before buying wiring, etc.. is all I'm sayin in that regard. Also, you do deserve credit for at least being honest here saying what you do and don't know, and askin for input, better to ask than go blindly into something that is this dangerous. Well, good luck with it, I'm sure by what you have said here it is like 98% that its nothing more than electrical work at your location that has caused this problem since we know that the techs checked it at the shop, though remember that was likely as I said nothing more than a bead or so in my opinion and returned to you with clean bill of health, unless you asked for or paid for further testing.

    Please understand that its likely the technician just ran a bead, things looked fine and and returned it to you for the diagnostic fee.. and it could possibly need testing that is more stressful to really know for sure....that is if you know 100% your electrical work at your location is NOT the problem and if the user isn't not the problem. if you wanted that kinda verification of welder performance for said period of time I would say pay for them to put your welder under a load test (load Bank) for say a hour at a setting that your particular machine is capable of with a 100% duty cycle, every model has a specified duty cycle rating- the techs will know all about this, so just mention it. I would say if your machine can perform for them under a load for a hour without problems then, I don't see any reason it should have any problems when you get it home other than user error or poor electrical work at your location. though I can see a tech welding a one inch bead and writing up a ticket to get their diagnosis fee. Since they will only do the bare minimum unless there is evidence or reason to do further testing. lol I know there was some repeating here but I don't feel like going back and messing with it so you get it raw.....enjoy

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    12

    Default just a reply

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuske427 View Post
    It's all good, not offended here. And I do appreciate your reply and you taking the time to reply. I just wanted to give the forums a chance first before having to take it in to an authorized service repair place and having to pay (plus time down) for a diagnose & repair that perhaps could have been solved for free on a forum. Unfortunately for me, none of the suggestions solved my situation, my machine still turns itself off, so I will be calling them and likely be taking it in somewhere for a repair. One thing I did notice today is a slight humm, a noise I hadn't noticed before. Perhaps it's shorting out somewhow? A short would explain the shutting off.
    I could be wrong but by this reply it seems like you didn't understand that long reply about miller support. You do understand that service centers are private companies that are just certified and supported by miller the manufacturer with information and parts, but by all means there is a huge separation between what you got outta my info and what I said.... you thought I was sending you to you service center first, nope that was of last resort... my suggestion was you call Miller the manufacturer and or parent company and talk to thier Customer Support staff and ask to speak with somone in your machines divsion, wire feed etc... this option was as free to you as the forums and and instant response by phone... this would have likely been weeded out by process of elimination over the phone without service center fee's and down time. they would have narrow'd down whats going on and led you to the answer. Guarantee once they heard you talk about a shared compressor outlet and you not knowing enough about electricity. I'm very certain you would have been led to the same conclusion without a cent spent for great information, there is no reason for them to lead you in the wrong direction after all if that was thier game plan, they would provide the service at all. Believe me not only do they know the equipment in their division, you would have also walked away from this problem with a better feeling about miller products and thier unbelievable humble approach to helping their customer base understand and diagnose before being forced to open your wallet and pay a service center for things that could have been solved over the phone once they heard you have a unknown electrical installation for 220v air compressor and you share it, but know nothing about the breaker size of wire length of run on the wire and the demands that the welder will require........that would have sent up a red flag for them to tell you to first get or consult with a qualified electrician to your location explain the power demands you need and go from there and let him visually inspect the electrical that has already been done for that air compressor outlet. A honest person in that field would have gone from the main breaker box all the way to the outlet, checked the demands of your machine and give you a good estimation on what is or isn't needed, if everything was correct and in good workin order then checking connections at breaker and outlet are not a bad option but very unlikely that is problem if everything else is right, unless you had aluminum wiring, which isn't likely but anything is possible at this point without further info.
    Guarantee they would have said check the electrical power provided then get back with them, once that checked out fine then you go on to other possible problems if that didn't fix it at that point. Nothing more than process of elimination, and they glad to assist you with it. now a service center I would say is very against free info and if you get any its likely from someone in sales that knows prolly 1% or less of what a tech or a customer service rep at miller would know, and they are there to make money so bringing you in for a diagnosis which WIll cost you is what they gonna push 99% of the time. Hey its a business, they are in business to make money just as any other. Miller too is a business but they have already made thier money on us when we bought their equipment so great phone support is just good business if you ask me, and yes they even support the Techs at the service centers, where do you think they got service manuals from....? so which one do you think knows more?? the service center or miller? and which one will bend over backwards over the phone and give you ACCURATE info on your product without your welding machine leaving your house and without asking you to open your wallet? I hope this makes more sense this time around

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