Miller Electric

Welding Discussion Forums

Home » Resources » Communities » Welding Discussion Forums
 
Miller Welding Discussion Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sweetwater, TX
    Posts
    201

    Default Building wooden fence with metal posts - Need material advice

    Hi,

    I am planning on building a wooden fence using these prefabricated 8ft x 6ft panels from Lowes. I have never built a fence before so any suggestions you have I would sure appreciate.

    Either going to use this panel style ($35.97 each)
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_202817-77007...nels&facetInfo=

    Or this panel style. It is more expensive per panel ($44.97 each) so maybe its made better. I think the panels are a little thicker.
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_202844-77007...nels&facetInfo=

    The plan is to lay a ~ 6" wide cement path around the property perimeter facing the street and have the metal posts cemented in place (centered in the ~ 6" wide path). The fence panels will rest on the small ~ 6" wide cement perimeter, or maybe I can space them up by an inch to get them off the cement. I'll weld short pieces of 2" strap to the posts and bolt the fence panels to the strap.

    The thought behind the cement is to keep dogs from digging under the wooden fence and to keep the fence off the ground to prevent termites. The thought behind the metal posts instead of wooden is also to prevent termite damage.

    Any idea how thick the metal posts should be?

    I was thinking of using 8ft metal pipe or square tubing and having about 2ft cemented in the ground.

    I think the square tubing might be easier to put the strap on since it would be flat and give a longer surface to weld to. I would just have to make sure the flat edge lined up when cementing it in.

    I am not sure if 2" square tubing is big enough to handle the fence or if I should go up to 3" or 4". In west texas some times the wind does get up pretty high even in town.

    The steel supply place here has a listing of the material they carry.
    http://www.sweetwatersteel.net/structuralsteel.html

    I haven't taken property measurements yet but I'm estimating the property we will be fencing will be close to 65ft x 100ft.

    Clint

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WY...armpit of U.S.A.
    Posts
    659

    Default

    Do yourself a favor and head to the nearest fencing supply dealer. They will be able to sell you ready made horizontal connectors for round pipe fence posts that bolt onto the posts after they've been cemented in that will allow for slope variation,though in west Texas that probably doesn't come into consideration, basically just a bottom strap angle with screw holes for fastening your horizontal fence members bolted on with a two strap u-bolt connection that has a slotted pivot for each u-bolt leg. A trip to the local scrap yard provided my own back yard with enough 2" ID pipe to get the job done rather cheaply... at that time it was cheaper than wood. The same seller can also provide you with decorative pot metal caps for that same 2" pipe. BTW, 2" pipe uprights aren't going anywhere any time soon if cemented in!

    Two foot depth for west Texas sounds a bit shallow unless the concrete is placed as a structural reinforcement. As the pipe isn't going to be that much more for another foot each, I'd go at least three foot... better than having to redo the fence after the next storm. Remember, you're talking about some fairly large sails there...

    I tried looking for the hardware I used in a Google photo search and didn't come up with the exact product, probably wrong search parameters, but here is a photo that should give you the general idea. Galvanized dip product as well!!



    Photo of the pipe cap. At that time, 20 yrs. ago, they were less than a buck each.


    EDIT: Finally, I'd think about building my own fencing panels instead of buying ready made. I went with dog eared ceder and it has withstood 20+ yrs. or hard winters and rough summers quite well.
    Last edited by WyoRoy; 01-03-2013 at 10:52 AM.
    Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
    Miller DialArc 250
    Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
    Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
    Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
    Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
    South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
    Logan 7" shaper
    Ellis 3000 band saw
    Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
    Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
    3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
    Lots of dust bunnies
    Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sweetwater, TX
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Thanks WyoRoy for the reply. I figured someone had to make something for round pipes but didn't know what to search for. The pictures help a lot! The pipe caps will certainly be a must for this project as well, thanks!

    With the connectors you mentioned, I think it would be better to go with the pipe then since I wouldn't have to worry about the alignment when cementing in.

    As far as the 2ft depth, I do plan on pouring cement in the pipe hole to secure the pipe in place in addition to having the cement path the fencing would sit just above.

    Do you really think the 2ft would still be too shallow? The reason is getting a hole 3ft deep in west texas soil can be a pain with a post hole digger manually.

    To get 3ft, I'm pretty sure I will have to rent an auger to drill it, and that should work so long as I don't hit hard caliche rocks.

    I just picked 2ft as the depth since I saw the 4x4 wood posts came in 8ft lengths and I figured with a 6ft fence that would leave 2ft in the ground.

    Do you recommend the galvanized pipe over steel for any reason?

    I always thought maybe the galvanized pipe for chain link fencing was very thin walled. Do they make thicker stuff?

    Would the normal galvanized pipe used for chain link fencing be able to support a wooden fence?

    Or would it be better to go with something like this:
    A500 ERW Structural Carbon Steel Pipe
    2" SCH 40 (2.375 OD X .154 wall)

    That pipe is sure expensive though.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    WY...armpit of U.S.A.
    Posts
    659

    Default

    I would have reservations about using the thin walled pipe, tubing, used for chain link fence. It might be okay, but 2" schedule 40 is cheap enough if purchased used. I don't know what you have around your area as far as scrap yards, but the local company provided as much of the 2" pipe I needed at the time for 10 cents a pound...those days are probably dead and gone though.

    I had to rent a gas powered auger when installing my posts. Even had to have a friend and myself sitting on top of the auger to drill some holes due to the hard clay here...as well as pouring water down the hole, waiting, sitting on the auger and repeating on some of them!

    As far as galvanized pipe, I can't say. We used standard Sch. 40 and let it rust to a uniform patina...well it was rusty already. Looks nice enough with the ceder pickets. Probably the same general weather as your area...arid...so further rust doesn't seem to be a significant problem in our lifetime.

    Used a post level when cementing in the posts.


    EDIT: As far as depth, it would probably depend upon your exposure to wind in your back yard. Wyoming is windy...and my memories of west Texas aren't much better in that respect. I used cement in the holes...remember to slope the cement into a mound around the top to drain the water away from the post or you'll be creating problems for later.
    Last edited by WyoRoy; 01-03-2013 at 11:20 AM.
    Miller 251...sold the spoolgun to DiverBill.
    Miller DialArc 250
    Lincoln PrecisionTig 275
    Hypertherm 900 plasma cutter
    Bridgeport "J" head mill...tooled up
    Jet 14 X 40 lathe...ditto
    South Bend 9" lathe...yeah, got the change gears too
    Logan 7" shaper
    Ellis 3000 band saw
    Hossfeld bender w/shopbuilt hyd.
    Victor Journeyman torch and gauges
    3 Gerstner boxes of mostly Starrett tools
    Lots of dust bunnies
    Too small of a shop at 40 X 59.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sweetwater, TX
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WyoRoy View Post
    I would have reservations about using the thin walled pipe, tubing, used for chain link fence. It might be okay, but 2" schedule 40 is cheap enough if purchased used. I don't know what you have around your area as far as scrap yards, but the local company provided as much of the 2" pipe I needed at the time for 10 cents a pound...those days are probably dead and gone though.

    I had to rent a gas powered auger when installing my posts. Even had to have a friend and myself sitting on top of the auger to drill some holes due to the hard clay here...as well as pouring water down the hole, waiting, sitting on the auger and repeating on some of them!

    As far as galvanized pipe, I can't say. We used standard Sch. 40 and let it rust to a uniform patina...well it was rusty already. Looks nice enough with the ceder pickets. Probably the same general weather as your area...arid...so further rust doesn't seem to be a significant problem in our lifetime.

    Used a post level when cementing in the posts.


    EDIT: As far as depth, it would probably depend upon your exposure to wind in your back yard. Wyoming is windy...and my memories of west Texas aren't much better in that respect. I used cement in the holes...remember to slope the cement into a mound around the top to drain the water away from the post or you'll be creating problems for later.
    Thanks for the tips WyoRoy! I didn't know they made a post level tool. That will certainly be better than trying to use a single level. I'll check the stores here for that.

    Glad to here you used Sch 40 pipe. That answers my question about using thin galvanized pipe.

    I do know of a scrap yard here, never thought about them getting pipe though since this isn't an oil field town, but I'll check and see what they would sell it at if they have any.

    With the experience you had with the auger, it sounds like I'm going to have to go that route as well since the ground here is so hard. I guess I will look into rentals on that too.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    540

    Default

    If you are going to have a 6" wide concrete perimeter footing under the fencing to keep the dogs from digging under, consider renting a trencher(Ditch Witch) to make the footing for the concrete. Then you can trench Down into the ground 8-10" at least(I would do 12"), this will make it harder to dig under, and you won't have to build forms. After trenching, then auger the post holes and set the posts after removing all loose soil. This way all the perimeter footings and post holes can be poured in one pass to tie all of it together. This will provide more support for the posts, too. You will probably need a cement mixer(purchased,rented or borrowed), unless you have the cement delivered by truck. I would run 2 or 3 runs of rebar thru the footings to help prevent cracking and break up of the concrete. You could tack weld them rebar to the posts to hold them,(posts and rebar) in place while the concrete is added. If you have the concrete delivered, have some help on hand to help spread and finish the concrete in a timely manner. You don't want that stuff setting up in the truck because you wore yourself out trying to do it alone. Have everything ready BEFORE the truck arrives, preferrably before you order it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sweetwater, TX
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bistineau View Post
    If you are going to have a 6" wide concrete perimeter footing under the fencing to keep the dogs from digging under, consider renting a trencher(Ditch Witch) to make the footing for the concrete. Then you can trench Down into the ground 8-10" at least(I would do 12"), this will make it harder to dig under, and you won't have to build forms. After trenching, then auger the post holes and set the posts after removing all loose soil. This way all the perimeter footings and post holes can be poured in one pass to tie all of it together. This will provide more support for the posts, too. You will probably need a cement mixer(purchased,rented or borrowed), unless you have the cement delivered by truck. I would run 2 or 3 runs of rebar thru the footings to help prevent cracking and break up of the concrete. You could tack weld them rebar to the posts to hold them,(posts and rebar) in place while the concrete is added. If you have the concrete delivered, have some help on hand to help spread and finish the concrete in a timely manner. You don't want that stuff setting up in the truck because you wore yourself out trying to do it alone. Have everything ready BEFORE the truck arrives, preferrably before you order it.
    Thanks Bistineau for the tips. A ditch witch will sure save some time. Guess I'll have to consider that rental too.. I did not think about adding rebar in the perimeter footing but it makes sense and I never thought about tack welding it to the posts, I like that idea for securing it in place.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Bossier Parish La.
    Posts
    540

    Default

    You say you want to put the perimeter concrete across the front by the street to keep the dogs from digging out. Consider going all the way around, front, sides and back. Dogs don't care where they dig out, as long as they can get out. I mean as long as you have the trencher on hand, might as well do the whole thing at one time, so you don't have to go back and plug holes later that are not on the street side.
    Something else to consider, while you have the trencher, is to think about if you need additional water faucets in the yard to hook up water hoses, or if you want electrical outlets installed. This would be an ideal time to bury water lines and or conduit to put in these features too. If your going to rent the trencher, might as well think about all the jobs you can use it for, for the time you have it. If you don't want to add any of these to your yard, ask a neighbor or 2 if they might want to, and y'all can split the cost of the rental and save you a few buck$. You could go get it and he could return it, thus reducing your cost a little more and saving you the time of returning it while you continue the fencing project. Rent the trencher for 1 day on a Saturday and return it on Monday, that way you have it for 2 days instead of just 1. The rental places are closed on Sunday, so you can't return it that day and have an extra day to use it. Most are only open till noon on Saturday, so get there to pick it up as soon as they open so you maximize the time you have it. Call ahead of time to reserve it so they know you are coming after it and have it on hand. Don't wait till the day you want it to contact the place, get that lined up ahead of time.
    The rebar will help the concrete last much longer without breaking to pieces if/when the ground shifts.
    Last edited by Bistineau; 01-04-2013 at 06:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wa
    Posts
    535

    Default

    That's sure sounds like a lot of concrete. 80# bags do not go as far as you would think. Going to be expensive and a whole bunch of work if you plan to mix yourself (even with a mixer). Just something to think about. And you may want to just bury some kind of wire mesh instead of the concrete wall to save time and money.
    Last edited by Cgotto6; 01-04-2013 at 08:37 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Sweetwater, TX
    Posts
    201

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bistineau View Post
    You say you want to put the perimeter concrete across the front by the street to keep the dogs from digging out. Consider going all the way around, front, sides and back. Dogs don't care where they dig out, as long as they can get out. I mean as long as you have the trencher on hand, might as well do the whole thing at one time, so you don't have to go back and plug holes later that are not on the street side.
    Something else to consider, while you have the trencher, is to think about if you need additional water faucets in the yard to hook up water hoses, or if you want electrical outlets installed. This would be an ideal time to bury water lines and or conduit to put in these features too. If your going to rent the trencher, might as well think about all the jobs you can use it for, for the time you have it. If you don't want to add any of these to your yard, ask a neighbor or 2 if they might want to, and y'all can split the cost of the rental and save you a few buck$. You could go get it and he could return it, thus reducing your cost a little more and saving you the time of returning it while you continue the fencing project. Rent the trencher for 1 day on a Saturday and return it on Monday, that way you have it for 2 days instead of just 1. The rental places are closed on Sunday, so you can't return it that day and have an extra day to use it. Most are only open till noon on Saturday, so get there to pick it up as soon as they open so you maximize the time you have it. Call ahead of time to reserve it so they know you are coming after it and have it on hand. Don't wait till the day you want it to contact the place, get that lined up ahead of time.
    The rebar will help the concrete last much longer without breaking to pieces if/when the ground shifts.
    Thanks Bistineau for the tips. The reason I say just the property facing the street is because this property is a corner lot with no fence next to ours that we purchased. So we are going to tie it in with our current fence line. I don't want to redue our existing fence line yet because there is another property that sits behind us that I want to try to buy if they will sell (the man is in prison so never there). So I don't want to have to tear down a chainlink fence to install a wooden fence and then have to remove the wooden fence to move it back.

    If we get the property behind us, the I want to eventually refence the rest of it too and that will be as far as we can go since it will boarder the creek.

    Thanks for the tip on the Saturday rental, an extra day certainly helps!

    Nice tip on using the trencher for water lines. There is a shop in the middle of the property that has no water and I could then tie it in with our house. I'll keep that in mind.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Function split() is deprecated in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/footer.inc.php on line 70

Welding Projects

Special Offers: See the latest Miller deals and promotions.

Warning: Function split() is deprecated in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/footer.inc.php on line 145