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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Simcoe Ontario
    Posts
    89

    Default Where are all the talented welders!!!???

    First off I am a 24 year old journeyman welder /boilermaker a lot of the problem is a lot of the people trying to get in the industry go to some welding school where the teachers are 9 times out of 10 not good at the trade themselves and the schools don't care if they learn they just want the 10-20 grand per student and will teach you how to pass a test. And another problem is every shop I worked at when I was trying to learn the trade just wanted some guy welding the same part or job all day for 13-20 an hour which is in no way enough to live on when the company is almost always charging labour out at we'll above that. If your a business owner find someone who is willing to learn give him a FAIR wage and help him learn and once he is a competent tradesman it's up to you and your wallet to keep him after all the company gets fat off the backs of its workers.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Salem ,Ohio
    Posts
    3,900

    Cool

    I see guys everyday that still owe 13 grand on their school and are now pushing a trigger burnin wire for 11-12 bucks an hour 50 hours a week. Sure not the job i would have thought it was is what they are sayin...Bob
    Bob Wright, Grandson of Tee Nee Boat Trailer Founder
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  3. #33

    Default

    Nathan128 is so right, kids come out of a welding program thinking that they are workplace ready instead of entry level ready.
    There are some pretty good instructors in welding schools but the majority couldn't actually make it in the real working world. They are school instructors for a reason. And they seem to spend a significant part of their day trying to convince young, impressionable students that they are God's gift to the welding world, capable of making any weld ever required in any situation world wide, the "best there ever was".
    These kids call me pretty often looking for work. They either tell me how badass they are, or they tell me how badass their instructors were. I write them off immediatly.
    That just handicaps the student, and slows his entry into real world jobs.
    The old timer, with many years real experience in the field is worth many, many more dollars to me as a business owner than a truckload of recent graduates who've been brainwashed to think they are IT.
    I've worked with thousands of welders over the years and the best I've ever seen have never been to a formal welding school, but learned on the job from grizzled old dudes.
    Internal drive and commitment are the traits that make slick welders in any of the wide variety of welding fields. That "can" happen in a formal welding school environment, but frequently doesn't.
    The average welding instructor is more of a hindrence to a young would be welder than a help.
    Sad but (in my experience) true.
    At least the community college programs don't soak the student for a ton of money, the high dollar private schools border on immoral, greed fueled scams.

    JT
    Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    northern NJ
    Posts
    1,840

    Default

    You ask where are all the talented welders?

    I'm right here. When the company I worked for folded up I just went out on my own because no one would pay a fair wage. Most places wanted to pay 10-12 for a trigger holder or they wanted a complete welder fabricator who knows all processes for 18-20 an hour. I always remember one add read must be able to fabricate from blueprints, operate all shop equipment, tig weld alum & stainless, etc, etc, for $17 an hour. I live in NJ which has a high cost of living so $17 is nothing.

    It seems to be the same in a lot of trades. The owners are trying to keep costs down so raises are mostly non-existant & starting pay is down from where it was. Unfortunately businesses are low balling to get jobs & corners have to be cut to stay competitive. Foreign workers are taking jobs at low wages also which keeps wages down. It's a cycle the keeps spiraling downward. Everyone buys on price instead of quality anymore.
    Last edited by MMW; 12-16-2012 at 02:57 PM.
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  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lake of the Ozarks MO
    Posts
    3,553

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan128 View Post
    First off I am a 24 year old journeyman welder /boilermaker a lot of the problem is a lot of the people trying to get in the industry go to some welding school where the teachers are 9 times out of 10 not good at the trade themselves and the schools don't care if they learn they just want the 10-20 grand per student and will teach you how to pass a test. And another problem is every shop I worked at when I was trying to learn the trade just wanted some guy welding the same part or job all day for 13-20 an hour which is in no way enough to live on when the company is almost always charging labour out at we'll above that. If your a business owner find someone who is willing to learn give him a FAIR wage and help him learn and once he is a competent tradesman it's up to you and your wallet to keep him after all the company gets fat off the backs of its workers.
    Quote Originally Posted by MMW View Post
    You ask where are all the talented welders?

    I'm right here. When the company I worked for folded up I just went out on my own because no one would pay a fair wage. Most places wanted to pay 10-12 for a trigger holder or they wanted a complete welder fabricator who knows all processes for 18-20 an hour. I always remember one add read must be able to fabricate from blueprints, operate all shop equipment, tig weld alum & stainless, etc, etc, for $17 an hour. I live in NJ which has a high cost of living so $17 is nothing.

    It seems to be the same in a lot of trades. The owners are trying to keep costs down so raises are mostly non-existant & starting pay is down from where it was. Unfortunately businesses are low balling to get jobs & corners have to be cut to stay competitive. Foreign workers are taking jobs at low wages also which keeps wages down. It's a cycle the keeps spiraling downward. Everyone buys on price instead of quality anymore.

    ALL true IMO. But it is all a matter of perspective. I sucks when you are paying someone a "fair wage" and after you figure your books and realize that even at $100 dollars an hr, your fair wage is more than you make yourself when all is said and done. Not always, but many times. It is tough to keep jobs rolling in steady and it's pretty hard to write checks for sweeping the floor. I've done it.
    And I had to make tough decisions on paying the talented but limited fabricator less money than the super talented fabricator but limited welder. It sucked. Bad vibes from the young guy ran off the old guy, and then the young guy figured how much pay the other guy got and blew up and quit.
    After I let the dust settle and all for a year, I realized My son and I make pretty close to as much by ourselves. Hard to swallow.
    When I read these kind of posts I remember all the attitudes. It isn't easy being a welder/employer and it is a hard find getting a guy who can truely make you money at the small job shop level.
    I can bid jobs and make money based on my talents. Bidding jobs based on others talents and life changing variables takes much more talent than my welding skills.
    Actual arc time is a small part of working at my job. Lots of disassembly, prep, fab, moving things etc.
    I could really use a boss more than a helper IMO. Then I could simply work.

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  6. #36

    Default

    Great responses and insights guys and gals. its almost 2 weeks after my original post and still cant find a decent hire. Thankfully we are slowing down heading into the Christmas season. In response to some of the posts discussing rates, my guys are treated very well. I live in Toronto, Ontario. Cost of living in these parts is comparable to NYC minus about 10%. My good welders make $35-45 an hour. Note i said welder not "rod burner" there is a difference. of my 5 main guys 3 started as young punks under the age of 20 and we've made welders out of them. This applies to all aspects of life these days i think. The young kids dont want to labour. With the winter slow down approcahing i think the best bet is going to be time to "breed" another teen boy/girl into a welder. Keep the thoughts coming and enjoy the Christmas season with friends and family. Welding isnt everything in life.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lake of the Ozarks MO
    Posts
    3,553

    Default

    I believe the term is "groom"
    "breed" could be more fun possibly

    www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
    Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
    MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
    Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

    Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
    Miller 30-A Spoolgun
    Miller WC-115-A
    Miller Spectrum 300
    Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
    SPEEDGLAS 9100XX

  8. #38

    Default

    "Groom" is the correct term. The Ministry of labour wouldnt be to happy if im breeding workers. Possible human rights issue.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    561

    Default Where are all the talented welders!!!???

    I would think in some cases it might be quicker to breed good workers than groom what's out there. lol

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sublimity, Oregon
    Posts
    18

    Default agree, but......

    Quote Originally Posted by diamondfab View Post
    Working in the cold puts hair on your chest and in some cases on your back. My employees are pretty spoiled. The best of the best equipment and warm winter gear coming out the ying yang. I think some blame has to go to college welding programs and private trade schools. People get their tickets and think they're full rate welders. To me a cert from a school is your license to learn.
    I totally agree that the graduation certi is just the ticket to start really learning the trade from more experienced welders. BUT when no one will hire you because you don't have enough experience, how are you supposed to get the experience??

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