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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SW Iowa
    Posts
    6

    Question Problem with my MM 211 on 230V mode

    Hey bought a miller 211 with MVP a few weeks ago, needed a good hobby welder to work on a VW dune buggy i'm building. So far I have only used the welder on 110v and it has done nothing but exceed my expectations. Finally got around to dropping a 220/230 outlet in the garage (NEMA 6-50) plugged it in.... flipped the switch... nothing...... now I have a maintenance degree, and I have wired up a hand full of 220 outlets... it's not exactly rocket science. Decided to check the voltages coming out of the box.... can't find my **** voltmeter, think i left it at the shop in town... but found my volt snooper, well better than nothing I guess.

    Power to the outlet on both sides, connections check out at the breakers, neutral hooked up properly.....Well (*&#%^!!!!.......

    Now I had the Welder Gun/Lead laying on my workbench, and I just happened to lay my Volt Snooper on the lead, AND THE FREAKIN' THING STARTS BEEPING AT ME!!!!! ... Well **** this has got my curiosity up.... So i Plug the 110v mvp plug back on, and plug it in, turn on the welder.. Welder turns on, put the volt snooper to the gun lead..... nothing...... So I put the 220 Mvp plug back on, flip it in the on position, doesn't turn on... but the Volt Snooper senses Voltage at the gun lead again????

    This has me absolutely Perplexed to a magnitude that I cannot explain without using words most likely frowned upon by the forum administrator.... I'm having my neighbor (the electrician) come over tomorrow and check out the power coming into the box just to make sure nothing is wrong on that side of things, but other than something like that the only thing I can think of is my new welder has a faulty circuit board in it.

    Please Help.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,861

    Default

    Search mm211

    Seems to be an issue with the mm211
    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
    MM252
    MM211
    Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
    TA185
    Miller 125c Plasma 120v
    O/A set
    SO 2020 Bender
    You can call me Bacchus

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,741

    Default

    There is NO neutral on 220!!

    Best get a voltmeter, cause you've hooked up the 220 leads WRONG. Maybe you should get a rocket scientist in there to do it for you.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SW Iowa
    Posts
    6

    Default

    On a 3 wire set up on 220/230 or whatever floats your boat, there is L1, L2, and Neutral. Technically there is no ground.... Turns out I had it all wired right, got the voltmeter back home and I was only getting proper voltage from L1 to Neutral and L2 to Neutral, but not in between L1 and L2. Turns out the breaker was a dud straight out of the box.. ODE TO THE CHEAP CHINESE JUNK THEY SELL US NOW-A-DAYS!!! Swapped out the breaker, worked like a charm, love this little welder.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SW Iowa
    Posts
    6

    Default

    But I might be wrong about that, some people refer to the neutral bar in the box as a grounding bar and vise versa, after all on the 110 circuits all of the bare ground wires and the white neutral wires all go to the same block/bar... so **** lets say were both correct and drink a beer in celebration! YAY

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    7,741

    Default

    There is a ground, AND there is a neutral. Youll find in the breaker box that the grounds and neutrals are separated in the same box.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
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    Default

    You should get your money back on that thar maintenance degree

    Neutral and ground are two entirely different things-

    And they should not terminate on the same bar/block
    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
    MM252
    MM211
    Passport Plus w/Spool Gun
    TA185
    Miller 125c Plasma 120v
    O/A set
    SO 2020 Bender
    You can call me Bacchus

  8. #8

    Default Problem with my MM 211 on 230V mode

    There's 2 things I see wrong here and by all means someone correct me if I'm wrong. 1 is doubt it was a breaker problem if you had 120 volts on both L1 and L2 to ground and 0 between the 2 legs. It just means you didn't bridge the 2 buss bars in the panel with the breaker. And 2nd although you are right that in the main panel neutrals and grounds essentially terminate to the same destination, in a sub panel the bridge between the 2 is supposed to be removed and 2 seperate circuits ran to avoid possible electrocution.
    Last edited by Manisoba; 11-27-2012 at 09:12 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    642

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamSievers View Post
    But I might be wrong about that, some people refer to the neutral bar in the box as a grounding bar and vise versa, after all on the 110 circuits all of the bare ground wires and the white neutral wires all go to the same block/bar... so **** lets say were both correct and drink a beer in celebration! YAY
    There are three four lines to get 240V into the home ...

    L1
    L2
    Neutral
    Ground

    If you look at an older DRYER it will have a THREE PIN plug.

    If you look at a newer DRYER it will have the new FOUR PIN Plug.

    I believe my utility company actually ties the neutral to ground at the pole.

    There is a reason for a separate line for Neutral .... it has to do with carrying current. You will notice that the wires for L1/L2/Neutral are all the same gauge and insulated, but that Ground Wire is smaller and not insulated.

    Here are the plugs .....




    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    You should get your money back on that thar maintenance degree

    Neutral and ground are two entirely different things-

    And they should not terminate on the same bar/block
    With all the confusion over this topic I put the question to a licensed Electrician ....

    He said .......

    I'm licensed in Oregon and Washington and am a member of IBEW Local 48.

    The notion of neutral and ground is indeed a confusing one, primarily because of unfortunate terminology.

    First, a word to all those who oppose the phrase "current flow:" Buzz off! I am not going to further complicate this SAFETY issue with the phrase "charge flow." The terms "current" and "charge flow" and "current flow" all mean the same thing. If you don't like it, stop reading NOW.


    "Current carrying" does not mean the same thing as "conducting." "Current carrying" is more like "hot" or "switched hot" or "traveler." Current does absolutely flow through the neutral, even though the neutral is not a "current carrying" conductor.

    Under normal conditions, no current flows through the ground wire. Under certain fault conditions, current does flow through the ground wire - instead of where we don't want it.

    The neutral is the grounded conductor, whereas the ground is the grounding conductor.
    Last edited by harcosparky; 11-28-2012 at 12:41 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SW Iowa
    Posts
    6

    Post

    Thanks to Harcosparky for clearing things up, I was just going to let this thread be and let people assume what they wanted to, but thanks again for doing a little footwork and asking a professional. I even asked my neighbor (the electrician) if maybe my terminology was wrong on this one, and he said not to worry about it too much, i'm doing just fine. I don't deal with electrical as much as an electrician by any means, but as I said L1/L2/Neutral 3 wire setup, It is not a box with the ground bar and the neutral bar separated. Three wires run into the box from the power pole, and the ground is tied in at the pole. on the 110 circuits running into the box the bare grounds and the white neutrals all run to the same bar and the. How about you boys go buy yourselves a 6-50R plug and tell me where that 4th wire goes lmao. I think I will keep that maintenance degree Mr. Brocoli1, but what do I know I'm just some kind of idiot.

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