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Thread: 3 phase to single phase

1. Member
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Oct 2012
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Neosho Mo
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Or you could do what I did and convert the welder. Go back to my first answer and follow the link for the conversion.
I tried the link and couldn't get it to pull up. I Even TRIED the URL on my browser and no result. A what did you have to do to convert it? Hook the transformers ina series?

2. Member
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May 2012
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Minnesota
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what browser

I don't know what browser you use, I use msn. I just clicked on the link in my first post and it brought the page right up.

3. Senior Member
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Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by fencemaker
I tried the link and couldn't get it to pull up. I Even TRIED the URL on my browser and no result. A what did you have to do to convert it? Hook the transformers ina series?

4. Member
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Oct 2012
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Neosho Mo
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Found it

Thanks I believe I'm on to it!

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electric bill?

Those of you who have done a Haas - kemp conversion on the CP 200 Miller about what is the energy bill increase or is there any

6. Member
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Mar 2011
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71
I guess I'm not sure how the type of converter makes a huge difference in electic bill. If a machine draws 20kW it draws 20kW.

I suppose there are some differences in the efficiency of the conversion process but I can't see a converter that has 8% losses vs 5% losses making a huge difference in the electric bill.

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Apr 2011
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Remove plz...

8. Member
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May 2012
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Minnesota
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Cp200 on single phase

I've done the conversion. The power consumption is the same as a single phase welder. You are actually setting the jumpers on the transformer to 440 setting and generating the third phase by the use of 2 motor run capicators. Basicly you are converting the primary from Y to delta. Now by setting the primary to 440 input you actually do cut the output by half, but the other part of the process is to convert the output from delta to Y which effectivly doubles the output. A rotary phase converter on the other hand uses a very large motor to generate enough current to run a welder and that does use a lot more power.

9. Senior Member
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16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
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I recall being part of a scheme a while back with electronic speed control or something,, the rotary wouldn't work.

Now, as for principle, sure you can find cheap machine and spend "few hundred" and all the effort and fukkin around to get something you coulhavefe bought new out of the box and ran 5 minutes from now with 5 yr warranty.

I can and I don't. I live out in the pucker brush a couple miles from 3 ph on a dinky branch circuit, I am by far, probably as much as the rest of them together the main user, I would love to get it from the line. If it a hobbyobby or absolutely had to I would do something I would but have no stomach buyingying someone elses junk, jury rigging a scheme, no resale, not that I would but I am with Cruizer here in general, converting a CP200 is fine,,, if,,,, you are electrical engineer with free parts and its a hobby,,,, any other reason besides than somehow its practical and so much better than buying a used 250, new Hobart 230 mig that runs on common 50A service is an emotional argument from a compulsive junk collector. Ok, a little harsh but just dont care to put the effort in to it.

I don't want all that ****t, I wanna plug in the wall, pull trigger. Use a cord I already got, one that works for every other machine as do the outlets, breaDon't. Dont want to turn 2 machines on 2 rundon't, dont want the ndon't, dont want it to idle long runs, take up space that cost me 500 to build.

10. Junior Member
Join Date
Sep 2011
Posts
8

Some notes here...

Originally Posted by fencemaker
Those of you who have done a Haas - kemp conversion on the CP 200 Miller about what is the energy bill increase or is there any
The CP200 is factory indicated as something in the vicinity of 7kw. When you convert it from three phase to single phase, the machine is in the exact same category- 7kw. The 7kw you would have seen spread over three legs, occurs on two.

Efficiency and loss? Negligable. There is NO change in transformer heating between original (three phase) and altered (single-phase) configuration. The only point of loss, is the ESR of whatever capacitors and wiring used... which is readily detectable by shooting the exterior of the capacitor case with an IR laser thermometer. I measured a 14 degree F rise after 6 minutes of minutes of continuous welding. I then connected the output leads across a 5' steel bar, dialed up 200A, and locked the output switch on (I shut off the wire-feeder and tank, of course) and let it cook for 30 minutes. No change in capacitor temperature. The welding transformer temperature rose considerably more, but went thermally stable well within a reasonable range (under 90C).

It runs nicely on a 240v 50A range plug- most guys that've done the conversion, used a generic pre-wired range plug from their favorite big-box store.

Now, cost of the energy bill... well, if you WEREN'T welding before, or you weren't welding MUCH (i.e. you had a 120v lunchbox MIG with 0.035" fluxcore that you used every two months or so), then your energy bill is gonna go up by a bunch... because you'll have a REAL WELDER, and you'll find a whole new love for welding. Aside from that, you're running a welder... whatever energy you put into making hot glue, will be energy that comes out of your receptacle. It's a very linear calculation.

I'll take an opportunity to clarify and correct Caddidaddy's statement- We're not setting the jumpers to 460v to 'cut the power in half'. We're setting the jumpers to 460v because the transformer windings, when jumpered for 460v, are actually seeing 277v from centerpoint to each leg. If you jumpered the windings for 230v, the windings would be in series, thus, more like 138v. Applying 240v to a 138v winding is not a wise idea. Applying 240v across a 277 winding is just fine.

Now, for those that feel need to express their lack of desire to undertake such a simple project, there's no reason to be caustic. If you're sufficiently monetarily-endowed to discard perfectly good equipment, orfeel the need to compensate for lack of interest, lack of skill, or lack of intellectual fortitude, that's your perogative, but your postings gain you very little respect when someone who DOES exercise the alternative realizes the result. In either case, I simply don't care what naysayers think- you have no ground to stand upon until such time that you've actually tried it, and provided a very thorough critical report. If you attempt the conversion, and do not find success, it's either because you lack the ability to read and follow instructions, or lack the capacity to concentrate and proceed logically. I do, however, have one simple fact to share with you:

A three-phase welder is born with only one environment in mind: INDUSTRY. The INDUSTRIAL environment is three phase. A 120/240 circuit simply doesn't exist in an industrial fabrication line. As a result, the welder is not only built for three phase, it is also built for doing INDUSTRIAL-DUTY work. In the case of the CP-200, that's 100% duty cycle at 200A... DAY IN, DAY OUT. Dirty, hot, cold, wet, dusty... for DECADES. They're excellent machines. This doesn't mean it isn't suitable for single-phase power- on the contrary, they work wonderfully well on single-phase... it's just that in an industrial environment, the typical power availability is NOT SINGLE PHASE. It's 3.

On the contrary, if you go looking for a welder that was DESIGNED and MANUFACTURED SPECIFICALLY for SINGLE PHASE POWER, that it will be indended for NON-INDUSTRIAL environments. It MAY be suggested for use in an industrial environment, but you'd be hard-pressed to find one as durable, as powerful, as robust, and as serviceable as an industrial unit. Look at a MillerMatic 250... check the duty cycle ratings. Look at an Autoset 250... what's it rated for? Think they'll red-hot a crowbar and live forever doing it? Think you could dump either one of 'em over on their side, and not wind up spending TWICE the cost of a used CP just getting the cover and mostly-plastic wire-feeder system repaired? No, you won't.

Now, for the rest of the comments- Keep in mind that shunning something without experience and grounds, is a very clear form of 'False Witness'. I don't expect anyone to believe- being skeptical is natural. Before attempting to label it as mytical, or complex, or irreversable, or impractical, or ineffective, or inefficient, or ANYTHING... I expect you to TRY it, or TRY ONE that has already been converted. If you can't support your claim with first-hand empirical data, you're demonstrating the character of a fool. I have several rotary converters, and plenty of 3-phase generators- If I was lazy and apathetic, I would have simply used those sources and been done with it. In the words of a man of five decades ago, I did not go down this path because it was easy- I went down it because it was HARD. It was an idea that, like many, went from neurons to a napkin, while eating a bacon cheeseburger with a buddy... and it worked.

Some food-for-thought here:

- Attempting to prove something possible, and failing, does NOT prove something impossible- it only proves that the attempt failed.

- Failing to prove something to be possible, and then giving up, only proves one thing:
That you lack the understanding, skill, equipment, enthusiasm, or circumstances to experience success.

As a result:
Only ONE thing is impossible: proving that something is impossible.

Wether or not YOU personally feel that something is of value, is nothing more than your opinion, based on your circumstances and experience. Having irrelevant circumstances and/or a total lack of first-hand experience, but carrying and displaying a bold opinion, is incredibly foolish.

For anyone interested, just look at the forum postings of those who have, and see if there's someone in your area who's done it... send them a message, see if they'd be willing to accept a visitor to try out their conversion... I'm betting they's all be happy to. Of course, if you're near the east coast of Iowa, you can drop me an Email, and I'll set up an opportunity for you to come try out EVERY one I've got in my shop... the original SRH-333 is here, and not the first, second, third or fourth CP200, but the FIFTH CP200 is here (the rest are hard-at-work in others' shops all around the country). There's currently a CP-300 and four different flavors of the AIRCO CV 300 in-line for their turn... some or all of those may be operational when you arrive.
Last edited by DaveKamp; 11-17-2012 at 01:58 AM. Reason: paragraph formatting

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