question for an at home welder

[kvwall]

Check out the MM 211. It'll run on 110v and 220v. I use mine exclusively on 220v so I don't know how well it works on 110v. But I like it so far.

I know we never heard what kind of welding he wants to do but..... I think most new guys are looking for wire feed. IMO.

[Matrix]

Power strips and extension cords with breakers aren't that uncommon.

Perhaps 110V, but 220V? I don't think I've ever seen one.

Why would anyone put a breaker in a cord? Especially in residential and for a welding machine?

He did it for the sake of safety. It's now been brought to my attention that it may not be legal but his intention was good. A standard stove breaker is 220V @ 40A. In the old days they would use a 30A breaker but they tripped pretty easily if the oven was on at the same time as the top elements. My friend's welder draws 220V @ 20A. (My own wire feeder draws 220V @ 25A)
If a problem ever occured with his welder the breaker would not trip until the current draw exeeded twice the normal maximum draw. Wires can fry. Internals can fry. Fires can happen.

[WyoRoy]

My friend's welder draws 220V @ 20A. (My own wire feeder draws 220V @ 25A)
If a problem ever occured with his welder the breaker would not trip until the current draw exeeded twice the normal maximum draw. Wires can fry. Internals can fry. Fires can happen.

Darn, starting to feel like a nitpicker here, but other than maybe a handful of Chicom manufactured welders and older, much much older, American built welders there wouldn't be cause for a problem in the least when being supplied with current at a higher amp rating than the welder's own rating. The reason for this is that most, if not all, modern welders have an internal circuit breaker built into their design.

[Broccoli1]

OK, now I get you. It's the "inline" fuse you think might be illegal, not the cord itself. I confess I don't think I looked up that aspect of it. I'm in Canada so we don't have NEC but I'm sure we must have something similar. I"ll look into it. That kind of info would be useful for me personally as well. Thanks for the heads up.

NEC doesn't care* about what you Plug into the wall receptacle it only Governs how the wall receptacle is wired.

* their code for a Range Circuit/Receptacle only tells you what they want to see in that installation: they don't care if you plug something else in to it, not their problem.

Same for an Industrial installation:
Welder Receptacle: Code only dictates how the Receptacle and circuit is wired.


Extension cords fall under OSHA and Fire Marshal: they want safe work areas and safe exits and you'll never see them at a residential place. I imagine the Fire marshall wouldn't mind home inspections during Christmas time though

[USMCPOP]

If I ever have an electrical problem around here, I'll just blame it on Ed and Roy.

(Hey, guys, thanks once again for the goodies you sent.)

[Matrix]

NEC doesn't care* about what you Plug into the wall receptacle it only Governs how the wall receptacle is wired.

* their code for a Range Circuit/Receptacle only tells you what they want to see in that installation: they don't care if you plug something else in to it, not their problem.

Same for an Industrial installation:
Welder Receptacle: Code only dictates how the Receptacle and circuit is wired.

So it sounds like what you're saying is that the cord would be fine if the inline box were eliminated from it.

I'm assuming that the code would define "Welder Receptacle" as something other than a standard 220V/1 outlet. That's all I'm using for mine and there are many other things I can plug into it so I don't see how it could be considered a welder receptacle.

I clearly need to look more into this within my own laws to see if I am in compliance. My friend might want to know as well.

[Broccoli1]

So it sounds like what you're saying is that the cord would be fine if the inline box were eliminated from it.

I'm assuming that the code would define "Welder Receptacle" as something other than a standard 220V/1 outlet. That's all I'm using for mine and there are many other things I can plug into it so I don't see how it could be considered a welder receptacle.

I clearly need to look more into this within my own laws to see if I am in compliance. My friend might want to know as well.

It depends on where you are:
at home, no worries and I would wouldn't worry about the cord with the in line CB

at a job site- most likely not Ok with OSHA but that is really another ball game all together so it is not worth talking about.

There really isn't a "welder Receptacle" it is just a receptacle and depending on which type of receptacle you install, that will dictate how the wiring is supposed to be. I was just using that as an example.

( a lot of 240v welding machines use a 6-50p on their power cords so a 6-50 receptacle is pretty typical)

In a residential application and where you may have an inspector come take a looksee at your installation they will look at the rating on the receptacle and make sure that the wiring matches.


** there are exceptions to the rule but I doubt a Home Inspector knows about them and if they even apply in residential applications.

[Sberry]

If a problem ever occured with his welder the breaker would not trip until the current draw exeeded twice the normal maximum draw. Wires can fry. Internals can fry. Fires can happen.

A machine that comes with a 50A plug is designed to be able to be connected to a 50A circuit.

So it sounds like what you're saying is that the cord would be fine if the inline box were eliminated from it.

This is accurate. A buzzer should really have a 10 cord which can be protected @50A, a 211 can use a 12 or better @ 50A

[Sberry]

A 14 will serve the load for a 211 but there is a catch,,, to use this on a common 50A welder circuit the machine internals would have to bump up a class (A buzzer comes with a 12 and NO thermal) but to fix this the 211 crew ads internal thermal just inside the switch, think switch in the middle, on the other side a cord of number 12 to a 50A, the breaker is not there to protect the cord or the circuit, its sc protection and on/off, the machine will only draw what it will, remember 14 will serve it,,, will never overheat the 12 feeding it.

their code for a Range Circuit/Receptacle only tells you what they want to see in that installation: they don't care if you plug something else in to it, not their problem.

They kin of do, its a range circuit but since the conductors are superior than the demands of the welder its pretty much a moot point. The NEC lists the demands and duty cycle, the installer iresponsiblele for ensuring the circuit is adequate, a 12 wire 50A would be legal for a 211, not for a 251, even 2 circuits with different methods, a 12/50 single circuit in pipe legal for a common buzzer, need to bump it to 10 if using romex type cable or cord. Hence the redi made 8/50 cord, covers any machine with a 50 and any extra rating required due to cord.

Clear as mud?

[Txlawyer]

I have a Miller Matic 211, its awesome for the at home welder!!