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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    12

    Default 6013 on Aluminized Steel

    No it wasnt aluminized but mainly butt welds. I didnt try the 1/16 rod though

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    401

    Default $.02

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes C View Post


    By the way, I'm not trying to make up for poor technique with the low amps and diameter - I'm just a beginner, as I stated. I think we all know that low current and smaller electrodes are easier for a beginner to manipulate. You might tell me to learn on a larger rod because I'll learn faster but, I assure you, by choosing to practice on thin gauge pipe it is plenty challenging.
    Besides that, our machines go down to 20 or 30 amps for a reason, they make 1/16" electrodes for a reason.
    I don't think sberry meant to offend with the "poor technique" comment. beginner=poor technique. Once you have the technique mastered (some of us never do)your not a beginner any more. You may not be an expert yet but your not a beginner any more. As for the ease of use of smaller electrodes being easier to learn, I beg to differ. Those tiny electrodes have a whole range of difficulties that seem to disappear around 1/8"(the opinions of others may differ). The up side is if you learn to weld with those little guys the bigger stuff will be a breeze.
    The 20 or 30 amp settings on stick welders imho is to satisfy some interior decorator's need for balance. haha.
    Just curious, if your going to all the trouble to make a custom exhaust system for your project car why not go all stainless?

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,395

    Default

    Its so challenging that it will be difficult to learn. As you stated you were a beginner, this is why poor technique is likely the culprit, over the years have seen this more than once. My Dad used to have the thing set 30A too low to try to make up for this, its just something there is no way to adjust around, once you get it there will be an ah ha moment or 2, its something so much easier mastered with some competent instruction, may never be grasped with trial and error no how much practice one does. Out of the countless welders I have ran in to only a number I might be able to count on fingers that have become real proficient thru the self learning route,,, hence the welding schools are still in biz, some young guys with little real experience have become the best thru schools or had excellent mentors. Have seen guys with 30 yrs under their belts still don't have it right.

    I rarely stray far from the settings the electrode runs well at even when going to thin metals, maybe reach over and deduct 5 a on a 1/8 6011 but thats about it, you can change the penetration characteristics by manipulation and iisn'tnt sticking,,, preventing good starts, too low and a guy gets a booger or by the time he gets going burns a hole in it.

    As for them making these rods, yes there is a reason. There may be legitimate places for them with professionals but mainly are made because someone will buy them. The drywall stud guy uses 1/8, I got a few around but they gather dust while they age, ran a couple from a box and its the last time I use them.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
    Posts
    4,395

    Default

    This is not meant to be insulting but the fact you are a beginner and having trouble suggests poor technique, no other reason it shouldnt work especially on that thickness of material, actually 14 and 16 isnt all that light.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    7

    Default @ Sberry I hear ya!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    This is not meant to be insulting but the fact you are a beginner and having trouble suggests poor technique, no other reason it shouldnt work especially on that thickness of material, actually 14 and 16 isnt all that light.
    I know you're not trying to insult. Things look pretty complex on the beginner's side of the fence!
    From a sheet metal perspective, yeah 16 ga isn't really light. As I get better with my fit-up, I find that I can getter better results in the higher current range (for the 1/16" I've been using) say around 40-45 amps. I would imagine that, as my technique improves (mainly keeping my angle and gap working on small diameter - for me - 2.25" pipe, I'll have an easier time manipulating a larger rod.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    7

    Default @ Sberry

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    Its so challenging that it will be difficult to learn. As you stated you were a beginner, this is why poor technique is likely the culprit, over the years have seen this more than once. My Dad used to have the thing set 30A too low to try to make up for this, its just something there is no way to adjust around, once you get it there will be an ah ha moment or 2, its something so much easier mastered with some competent instruction, may never be grasped with trial and error no how much practice one does. Out of the countless welders I have ran in to only a number I might be able to count on fingers that have become real proficient thru the self learning route,,, hence the welding schools are still in biz, some young guys with little real experience have become the best thru schools or had excellent mentors. Have seen guys with 30 yrs under their belts still don't have it right.
    Taught myself everything else I know, and I'm not going to welding school so I will be learning the "wrong" way, from your point of view. Besides, I'm not interested in becoming a pro not to mention that getting it right is subjective to some extent - I am getting it right when I have a sound weld without major technical flaws - if I'm not holding the stinger the way you showed me, oh well - I'm not you! My eyesight sucks too but I don't need binoculars with the 1/16".

    I rarely stray far from the settings the electrode runs well at even when going to thin metals, maybe reach over and deduct 5 a on a 1/8 6011 but thats about it, you can change the penetration characteristics by manipulation
    Hopefully, I will get to that point

    and iisn'tnt sticking,,, preventing good starts, too low and a guy gets a booger or by the time he gets going burns a hole in it.
    Not really sure what you're trying to say here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    As for them making these rods, yes there is a reason. There may be legitimate places for them with professionals but mainly are made because someone will buy them. The drywall stud guy uses 1/8, I got a few around but they gather dust while they age, ran a couple from a box and its the last time I use them.
    Hey, if there are legitimate uses for them then, yeah there is a reason to make them, isn't there.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    7

    Default @ Meltedmetal

    Quote Originally Posted by Meltedmetal View Post
    I don't think sberry meant to offend with the "poor technique" comment. beginner=poor technique. Once you have the technique mastered (some of us never do)your not a beginner any more. You may not be an expert yet but your not a beginner any more. As for the ease of use of smaller electrodes being easier to learn, I beg to differ. Those tiny electrodes have a whole range of difficulties that seem to disappear around 1/8"(the opinions of others may differ). The up side is if you learn to weld with those little guys the bigger stuff will be a breeze.
    Well, that's my goal. Agree to all of the above except the ease of learning part, maybe.

    The 20 or 30 amp settings on stick welders imho is to satisfy some interior decorator's need for balance. haha.
    Well, I suppose that since we're not going to be able to see my exhaust from outside the car... we can call that interior decorating!

    Just curious, if your going to all the trouble to make a custom exhaust system for your project car why not go all stainless?
    A couple of reasons, for one I don't need all stainless - aluminized lasts forever where I live. Stainless is also more expensive and, since I'm poor, there you go. My mufflers are Magnaflow 409 stainless, when I'm ready to try making a stainless system, I can cut 'em out of the aluminized system and go all stainless. Even then though, the only reason I would do that (assuming I have the money for stainless pipe and mandrel bends) is because I want to practice welding stainless, not from the point of view of performance or looks or whatever. A major consideration is that my shop at home isn't super well equipped, as you can tell my tools here are basic. I do have access to some Miller MIG and TIG machines that I can practice on but @ home, where my car is on jack stands, it's just more practical to weld it there... so stick it is. Not to say you couldn't do an all stainless with stick but, you'd probably agree it would be better to TIG it so I could back-gas it etc.

    BTW I really appreciate your optimism about the upsides! It's helpful.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    16919 Pole Rd. Brethren, MI 49619
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    4,395

    Default

    Yes, I am not pushing welding schools, its just an observation. I have even met a few guys that know almost absolutely nothing about it that are fine welders. I met someone the other day that was a self learner who really surprised me, he had some technical stuff wrong in conversation but he had mastered 6013 in all position. Another on one of these forums recently post up some pics that were pretty darn good with 8013.

    Personally dont really use it, have but just dont care for it if there is a 6010, 6011 or 7018 option. Its widely used, other places for some piping I see from forums but in this country its 10 and 18 a guy will find on a construction job and since I have DC machines its what I use,, actually 11 anymore due to a Max, give a few sticks to friends with buzzers and I think it starts-restarts a pinch better for small welds, general crap, lots of start stop, etc.

    Sometime I will watch a couple vids, I heard some of them are pretty good.

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