Flux Core Wire?

[DDA52]

Ok, after xmas (got enough .045 211 to last till Jan next year) but I will see if my LWS has some 21B, don'tcha feel all warm & fuzzy now

Nothing wrong with 211, IMO. Some guys don't like it, but I believe it is just fine. I just like the 21B better and I bet you would as well. It just lays down nicer than the 211. The flux is easier to remove as well. The 211 and 21B are both 71T-11 wires, so they act relatively similar....relatively. The 21B is just more forgiving and smoother. Either one of those two are fine....they are loads and tons better than the 71T-GS wires like the Fabshield 23. That stuff is just junk. I have a roll on my MM135 right now. I may just pitch it out the door one day. I have a 2# 211 that will take its place. I just bought a 30# roll of 1/16 21B and am almost finished with a 10# roll of .045. My .035 is 211 though.

hey, if you can, try out the NR-212. I liked it better than the 211 as well. It is different from the 211. IMO, the beads look better. It supposedly has more nickel in it than the 211. Maybe that is what makes it nicer, dunno.

[wireburner]

I have a LINCOLN 3200HD I use 0.35 Flux core wire also use 0.30 wire I think it does okay but you have to clean it more than gas welds

[fun4now]

as much as i like running C-25 and solid wire, i would say skip the conversion kit. save up for a wile and just get a larger welder befor worying about getting gas.
wireburner
thats odd i can burn threw almost anything with flux core wire in my MM135 without cleaning anything, if i'm using gas i have to clean first but flux i just fire it up and burn threw it.

[Darmik]

I don't think so dude....you need to get your facts straight.

There is a huge difference between Dual shield flux core and self shielded flux core. YOU quoted XL-71 and Esab Ultra 7100. They are dual shield wires as you stated. They require WAY more voltage than that little unit could ever produce. That is a fact. If you are so sure you are right, call up Lincoln and get them to tell you since you don't believe what you are reading.

Here are the numbers again.....Hobart XL-71 in .035 has a range that starts at 23 volts and 125amps and goes up to 28 volts and 225 amps. Lincoln Outershield 71M has a range of 20-32 vdc and 90-195 amps. In contrast, the self shielded NR-211MP, which is the wire Linc was referring to in the page you quoted, has a range of 14-16.5vdc and 30-120 amps. THAT is the range of the machine in question, not the others. Now, it may look like the unit would run the 71M wire on paper...BUT anyone who has run that wire will tell you that it gets very jumpy down low. It acts up something terrible. Dual shield wires are meant to be run hot and hotter, not at the lower end.

This is a totally stupid arguement anyway. Linc would never say that a low end machine would be capable of running a 71T-1/9 wire. When thay talk about flux core, they are talking about NR-211, a 71T-11 wire. That is the wire they mean and they probably even spell it out on the door chart as NR-211MP or 71T-11. They usually won't add a dual shield wire to a door chart until you hit the 251/255 class machines. They have the voltage necessary to run those wires.

I just go by what they say
on there little blurp MIG wire requires installation of K610-1 MIG Conversion Kit and supply of shielding gas If that little machine can not run this then why do they say so self sheild or not Complete, ready to weld package for use with self-shielded flux-cored wire. Upgrades to MIG so I did call thank you very much this will burn .035 but you must have a double pole 20amp breaker lonely
using 12 -3 wire.you are right this is a lower end machine but the FACTS still remain one thing I am noted for is people call me digger out here I do love a challenge however I will admit if im wrong I just love finding out stuff because
I still dont know everything

[fun4now]

seems pretty simple the hobart xl-71 is a flux core that is ment to be used with gas (requireing much more juce)
wile the manual refers to flux core wire not intended for use with gas(requireing much less juce) used on all the little MIG's and some of the larger for outside work where shielding gas is not an option and you dont want to use stick.

the xl-71 is a specilty wire most owners of a little 100 amp MIG will certinly not conside (if they ever even found it) due to $$.
its realy a bit silly to even mention it in this aplication.

[DDA52]

Thanks, James ....at least someone out there gets it.

Darmik, you just do not get it. Call Lincoln and tell them you want to run a .035 E71T-1 or E71T-9 wire on a 100 amp mig and see what they tell you. You are just not getting it from me or the numbers. Have you ever even run this type wire before? There is a huge difference between a self shielded flux core wire and an externally shielded flux cored or metal cored wire. Yes, they both have a flux core. BUT they are not the same in action or requirements. Not even close.

For anyone else reading this excercise in futility, a flux core can be either self shielding, or externally shielded. The self shielded wires are what are the most popular for small units. They require low power and will still penetrate well and weld much thicker material than the same sized solid wire. They do not require shielding gas. The flux inside creates its own shielding. If you use gas with a self shielded wire, you wll change its composition and that can be something you don't want to do. They are made to be used without gas. The AWS has a couple of classes for these wires. They are E71T-11 and E71T-GS. There are a few others, but these are the most popular and easiest to find. The brand names and numbers are Lincoln NR211-MP, Hobart Fabshield 21B and Fabshield 23 ...for example. These are general usage wires and have no mechanical properties.

There are more flux core wires that do have mechanical properties. They are self shielding as well. These would include the AWS classes of E71T-8, E71T-6, E71T7-K2 and others. Lincolns popular ones are NR-232, NR-233, NR-203, NR-305 and NR-311. Hobart has a few as well. They incluse the Fabshield 7018 and Durashield 8-11 wires and others.



Now, an externally shielded flux core wire is a different animal. It must have a gas to provide shielding. It can be either straight CO2 or an AR/CO2 mix. These wires are used on high output machines due to their higher voltage requirements. They also burn hotter than normal flux core wires. They are not the same as self shielded wires and cannot be run in place of said wires on small machines. The AWS classes thes in several categories. They are E71T-1, E71T-9, and E71T-12. These are the common 70,000 tensile strength designations...there are more. The vast majority are in the .045 and greater size range. There are a few of the .035's around. These have large voltage requirements even though they are a .035 cored wire. Miller weld engineers have said that the MM210 will run .035 dual shield...barely. It requires a setting of 7/80, which is almost max output of a 210a MIG unit. This is directly from Miller. Now, if a Miller 210a MIG will barely run .035 dual shield, according to the engineers that built and designed it, how in the world would a 100a machine be able to run it???????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????


Now, I do not profess to know it all and never have. I am getting all of this information from spec sheets on both Lincoln and Hobart wires. They are available online if you care to download them. It is very easy to determine the voltage and amperage requirements from the charts. The values for .035 are clearly listed if you care to do the digging. This is all I am going to say on this. It is a waste of my time to go any further. Those that know anything about this type of wire will know what I am talking about. Those that don't...I invite you to do the research. I'm done.

[Darmik]

I give up you win

[fun4now]

DDA52 Thanks, James ....at least someone out there gets it
no problem, i suppose i could have looked it all up like you did but that was a lot of typing .

it really is a shame you have to go to such extremes to prove such an obvious difference.

[Extreme Steel]

I just use MM-135 w/30 Flux-core wire and miller 35 tip and burn baby burn!!!!

[fun4now]

i always keep a few small roles of flux around for any outside quick fixes. it works realy well in the MM135.
i welded my 2 story 22'X20' shop togather with it.(see pic's)
over the 5+ years i have hed it its more than payed for its self.