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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Posts
    82

    Default

    I've been welding 4130 race care chassis for nearly 25 years now and you should tack and weld it with TIG method. You can tack with ER70S6 if you must but it just causes you to have that tack in the middle of the weld that looks bad. For TIG use either ER70S2 or S6... Most people still swear by S2 but the mill spec will allow S6 to be used anywhere S2 is called for and if it's good enough for mill spec I think the race car world can allow it.. The original wire was Oxweld 65 if my memory serves me correct.. Anyway I like S6 a lot better because the higher silicon makes everything flow out a little nicer. Be sure and use a foot control and don't over heat the tubing because it makes it brittle. Also 1/16 wire is the choice size for this.

    I hope this helps you get off on the right foot.

    CK makes some very nice torch mounted controls that aren't all that expensive..I know my next rig will be a CK because they have a 300 amp torch that isn't any larger than a WP20 weldcraft and takes all the same parts as a WP20..
    Last edited by Gunner12R; 03-08-2012 at 01:37 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1

    Default Tubing fit

    On your roll bar, the most important thing is fitting the tubing correctly at the joints, some people call it fishmouthing , you can buy a manual cutter that turns with a drill or if you have access to a mill chuck up the proper sized end mill at the proper angle and cut away. I have even used drum sanding rolls for minor adjustments on a HS grinder.
    In either case if you want a nice job the fit has to be there and keep your weld zone clean.
    By the way we use 100% argon and 309 stainless on all our chromoly tubing.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner12R View Post
    I've been welding 4130 race care chassis for nearly 25 years now and you should tack and weld it with TIG method. You can tack with ER70S6 if you must but it just causes you to have that tack in the middle of the weld that looks bad. For TIG use either ER70S2 or S6... Most people still swear by S2 but the mill spec will allow S6 to be used anywhere S2 is called for and if it's good enough for mill spec I think the race car world can allow it.. The original wire was Oxweld 65 if my memory serves me correct.. Anyway I like S6 a lot better because the higher silicon makes everything flow out a little nicer. Be sure and use a foot control and don't over heat the tubing because it makes it brittle. Also 1/16 wire is the choice size for this. ..
    I agree with Gunner12R on choice of filler......

    also...there are quite a few old threads to be searched... it is worth your while to read them... after all it is your neck in the balance......

    I would NOT use 309 filler for his application... this is an obsolete practice that was followed in the mistaken notion that the SS filler would make the 4130 welds more impact resistant and durable... I used to follow that practice myself until I was shown the error of my ways... It was common practice in race cars during the 1950's and 1960's... and also btw by the people that taught me (in 1968).... but testing and experience taught me better..............

    I would also seek out the tech inspector for your local sanctioning body for guidance..... after all he/she will grade your work and either pass or reject it...... so better not to stumble on issues that they consider important....

    BTW ... Here is a link to an AWS article regarding 4130 fillers....

    http://www.aws.org/wj/apr03/AWfeature.html
    Last edited by H80N; 03-13-2012 at 04:46 PM.
    .

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  4. #14

    Default

    Thanks guys....weather is starting to get nicer here so it's time to dig into this. I've got a bunch of extra tubing so I'm going to make up some joints and some practice welds, I'm pretty confident I'll be OK welding on the bench but beiing out of position with my body contorted in the trunk of the car or something where I can't really work the foot pedal is going to get real interesting.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Clarksville, TN
    Posts
    427

    Default

    The coolest thing I've seen for the out of position TIG welds is a strapped to the knee pedal. This rigged up a knee pad with a pedal on inside of his knee so it could be pressed by his other knee. Just need to be cautious of the cord when moving around and getting in to the out of position position, and of your leg getting tired hovering above the pedal (it'll wake you up.)

  6. #16

    Default

    That's a great idea!!!

    I've been practicing on the bench and am doing fine but it could get ugly in the car, it's time to get cracking though.

    I'm not sure how I feel about wearing a strap-on but heck I'll try anything once I guess!!!

    Thanks

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    812

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wrench3047 View Post
    The coolest thing I've seen for the out of position TIG welds is a strapped to the knee pedal. This rigged up a knee pad with a pedal on inside of his knee so it could be pressed by his other knee. Just need to be cautious of the cord when moving around and getting in to the out of position position, and of your leg getting tired hovering above the pedal (it'll wake you up.)
    A long time ago I purchased an east/west finger controller, I would have rather smashed my pecker in a vice and beat it with a ball peen hammer than use it to try and weld with. About 6 months ago my foot controller was giving me some problems, I was desperate enough to try the finger controller again! After strapping it to the torch, my attempts were again futile, back to the vice and hammer!
    Then I had an epifany...rather than strapping it to my torch which caused all kinds of erratic movement, I put it in my rod hand. After all it had to move around a bit to feed the rod anyway. It works awesome! I've all but thrown my foot pedal away and use the hand controller 99.9% of the time now.
    Miller Syncrowave 200
    Homemade Water Cooler
    130XP MIG
    Spectrum 375
    60 year old Logan Lathe
    Select Machine and Tool Mill
    More stuff than I can keep track of..

  8. #18

    Default

    I got alot of work done on the roll bar install this weekend. Bars are all in and welded. I was able to weld all of the base platesonto the tubes on the bench after a quick tack in the car and I was able to weld the cross bar into the main hoop on the bench as well so I only had to make 6 tig welds actually in the car: the two where the rear bars attached to the main hoop, two where the driveshaft tunnel braces attached to the main hoop and two where the door bars attached to the main hoop. Turned out to not be as difficult as I was worried about. I spent alot of time resharpening tungsten on the out of position welds but they came out OK.

    The hardest welds were actually the ones I never worried about. MIG welding the 1/8" base plates to the whisper thin sheetmetal floor boards.

    I'll take some pics once I get things cleaned up a bit.

    Next I need to cut out the door bars to install swing out hinge kits.

    Thanks everyone for all the advice.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    812

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Oatway View Post
    The hardest welds were actually the ones I never worried about. MIG welding the 1/8" base plates to the whisper thin sheetmetal floor boards..
    If you haven't already, you'll need a plate under the sheet metal as well as the one your tubes are welded to. Don't make them the same size or you'll end up with a huge weak spot. Make them at least 1" bigger or smaller all the way around (depending on the size of the uppers). Bigger is better. They also don't need to be fully welded, but check with your sanctioning body.
    Miller Syncrowave 200
    Homemade Water Cooler
    130XP MIG
    Spectrum 375
    60 year old Logan Lathe
    Select Machine and Tool Mill
    More stuff than I can keep track of..

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Wa
    Posts
    587

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nocheepgas:284065
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Oatway View Post
    The hardest welds were actually the ones I never worried about. MIG welding the 1/8" base plates to the whisper thin sheetmetal floor boards..
    If you haven't already, you'll need a plate under the sheet metal as well as the one your tubes are welded to. Don't make them the same size or you'll end up with a huge weak spot. Make them at least 1" bigger or smaller all the way around (depending on the size of the uppers). Bigger is better. They also don't need to be fully welded, but check with your sanctioning body.
    Is this a nhra rule? I have read the nasa and scca rule books very carefully and never heard of this.

    Sam

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