Miller Electric

Welding Discussion Forums

Home » Resources » Communities » Welding Discussion Forums
 
Miller Welding Discussion Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 47
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,114

    Default

    there are a whole range of 14 pin hand controllers , pedals and buttons that fit recent Miller welders... which one you buy or use is a simple matter of your needs and/or preferences....

    as you indicated that you wanted a button to trigger either 2T or 4T operation..... here is a thread that goes into button possibilities... it is about a Dynasty 350...... but controllers and buttons are functionally identical between that and your Dynasty 200DX...

    http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...-remote-button

    this button thread also amply illustrates some of the problems and pitfalls of long distance technical troubleshooting etc.....hard to do remotely without being able to visually see what is going on...



    (the controls & pedals for my Dynasty 350 interchange with my Dynasty 200DX and would plug into and operate flawlessly on my friends Synchrowave 250...as will a whole range of aftermarket and third party ones.....)
    Last edited by H80N; 02-01-2012 at 08:43 PM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default

    SundownIII's comments are in bold.
    My experience says that it's always the newbie, or guy who doesn't know what he's doing in the first place that always blames the equipment.

    I can't comment on the completeness of your experience in general. But occasionally the newbie is sufficiently schooled in the engineering process to recognize a design deficiency due to the failure of a particular product to meet expectations that would have been better met by a different product.

    Were I to design a torch, I would anticipate all potential uses for the torch and adapt it for all uses or offer several models as options. Miller already sells the basic unit separately so a choice of torches might not be a problem. Actual manufacturing cost of a functional add-on controller equivalent to those imbedded in the LS17R would not be expensive.

    Were I to design a torch from scratch with the expectation that strap-on controllers would be used, I would look at ribs like a splined shaft to allow positrive position angular location after the strap is set. This might allow more force to be applied to force the glove against the dial without the controller rotating. But, I would have had the pushbutton anyway. I don't think there was much coordination beteen controller and torch makers. But, it is a reflection on Miller when the torches are funcionally inferior to more complete models available from the same torch vendor. That's my opinion and nobody's unfounded criticism of the messenger will change the message.

    It's been stated in many threads that a fingertip control can be more difficult to learn the basics of tig with. That's why most will recommend a foot pedal for the new, just learning, guy.

    That is not an issue. The 200DX has programmed ramp up and down. But for it to work I need to be able to turn off the arc reliably. I can't do that reliably wearing gloves with this controller. Again, using a foot controller on a step ladder is a pretty stupid thing to do. For that to be a solution, we have to change the problem.

    Will be interesting to see how successful the OP is when he tries doing thin SS with his on/off button.

    You won't likely get an invite for that.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The people I distrust most are those who want to improve our lives but have only one course of action.
    -- Frank Herbert

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H80N View Post
    Personally I would not TIG weld at ANY amperage without at least thin buckskin or kidskin gloves and leather sleeves....for UV protection.... the long term UV effects are very scary... I have been around this business a long time and have seen too many cases of melanoma....strange liver spots and growths on weldors...

    Those TV shows where the guys weld bare handed make me crazy..... wonder where they will be in 20 years....
    Guess I should have made it clearer, I don't normally weld without gloves. I have tacked small parts without gloves only because the hand control is somewhat better with the RCCS-14. I weld most out of position where foot control is possible. If I had nothing but weld station work, then foot control would be used.

    Skin cancer probability is time-intensity related. Palms of hands aren't common sites as the dead epidermis is quite thick, especially when you work with your hands. This thick skin is a quite effective UV blocker since it is non-living.

    Yes, those on TV making long welds sans gloves gets me nervous. Even worse, those GMAW tack welding without hoods is far worse.

    Back to RCCS-14 use, the spring-ball detent CAN get dirty, making smooth operation difficult. It is easily cleaned and re-lubricated.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,114

    Default

    Randall
    Sometimes you cannot judge a book by it's cover..... you might be shocked at how many active members have advanced engineering degrees.. and many others with vast technical experience... might even be some of the ones that you think are giving you a hard time... even though the style may not match one that you are familiar with.... these people wish only for you and others to actually learn some of these skills.... too many newbs come in with boatloads of attitude while seeking an answer... usually that knowledge is better retained if the seeker spends a little time reading and researching the problem rather than expecting an answer to be handed to them...
    Thus you will find guys like SundanceIII with a bit of a rough edged attitude of their own when a newb comes in.... believe me... what you have experienced is not personal attack... maybe some of these guys are just a little jaded and toughened by having greeted hundreds of wiseapple newbs.... maybe you got a rough intro and a little trial by fire... through no fault of your own... and now have your hackles and defenses up,,,, Believe me these guys would not be wasting their time here just to torture new guys.... they have real knowledge and experience that they are willing to share... think you will find it worthwhile if you live through the intro....
    Can't explain it much better than that... do not let anybody sell you on that old knuckledragger welder stereotype.....

    Keith_J
    I was not cracking on you about the wearing of gloves... was just a general caution... had somebody very close die of Melanoma.... it is a horrible painful death... if a little bit of caution could prevent it.. I will recomend such.... young people think they are so darned bulletproof that they foolishly ignore the precautions.... if they ever saw the insidious progression of that cancer... maybe they would be more careful....
    Last edited by H80N; 02-01-2012 at 10:25 PM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default

    <strong>H80N's comments are supposed to be in bold. You will have to figure it out.<br>
    <br>
    Randall<br>
    Sometimes you cannot judge a book by it's cover..... you might be shocked at how many active members have advanced engineering degrees.. and many others with vast technical experience... <br>
    <br>
    </strong>Those who try to change the problem to fit their favored solution aren't the kind of engineers I work with. I have an electrical engineering degree too. Other engineers asked on occasion why I was so popular with operations and manufacturing when I designed non-destructive test equipment. The reason was that I asked the users what functionality they would like to see in the next generation product. All too often engineers think they are all knowing and miss their targets when they engineer a solution without fully understanding the problem.<br>
    <strong><br>
    Those who are unable or umight even be some of the ones that you think are giving you a hard time... even though the style may not match one that you are familiar with.... these people wish only for you and others to actually learn some of these skills.... <br>
    <br>
    </strong>They hide their admirable intent very well. I find nothing in personal attacks devoid of technical substance that is impressive. I fully expect they can run a bead, but I seriously question skills that would be necessary to solve a problem objectively when I am continually told I should buy a foot controller.<br>
    <strong><br>
    too many newbs come in with boatloads of attitude while seeking an answer... usually that knowledge is better retained if the seeker spends a little time reading and researching the problem rather than expecting an answer to be handed to them...<br>
    <br>
    </strong>I did that several weeks before settling on the Dynasty 200 DX. An Eastwood was available with similar welding functionality for 1/3 the cost, but I favored Miller because I've always found their gear to work well - up to the inherent limits of the process. That is not the case here. That isn't an attitude. It is a fact. It works well up to the limits imposed by a compromise in torch quality. It is all about dollars.<br>
    <br>
    <strong> Thus you will find guys like SundanceIII with a bit of a rough edged attitude of their own when a newb comes in.... believe me... what you have experienced is not personal attack... <br>
    </strong><br>
    I learned in college that words mean things. I parse the words according to their dictionary usage. I subscribe to the philosophy that if it looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk, it probably is not a duck.<br>
    <br><strong>
    maybe some of these guys are just a little jaded and toughened by having greeted hundreds of wiseapple newbs.... maybe you got a rough intro and a little trial by fire... through no fault of your own... and now have your hackles and defenses up,,,, <br>
    </strong><br>
    Yes, i'm pretty tired of the unsupported criticism. I talked to a guy at Miller today to suggest they provide a better torch as a standard product and add the incremental cost to the kit. He was familiar with this controller and he didn't like it either. Apparently my critics here have more of an emotional investment in Miller than they should if they want to be helpful. I find it interesting the Miller guy understood my complaint and agreed with it based on his own experience. He was probably not a decision maker, but he was a TIG user who shared my opinion.<br>

    <br>
    <strong>Believe me these guys would not be wasting their time here just to torture new guys.... <br>
    <br>
    </strong>Don't place a big bet on that. Evidence seems to contradict that, but I know you are trying to cool down the dialog. I did not start it. I only described the technical problems I had. Many fine qualified folks offered solutions. A few had nothing of substance to offer. I'm sure they are great welders. I wish they would just weld and leave folks alone if they have nothing to offer. Their criticism neither makes me question my opinion, nor does it cause me to think they could solve a problem if they even understood it. I've lived too long not to recognize a design that has fundamental deficiencies.<br>
    <strong><br>
    they have real knowledge and experience that they are willing to share... think you will find it worthwhile if you live through the intro....<br>
    </strong><br>
    It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they stopped sharing.<br>
    <br>
    <strong>Can't explain it much better than that... do not let anybody sell you on that old knuckledragger welder stereotype.....<img class="inlineimg" title="Smilie" border="0" alt="" src="images/smilies/smile.png?2" smilieid="1"><br>
    <br>
    </strong>I've known too many old folks who knew a lot and shared willingly to think age has anything to do with it. I've seen these personalities before and it is usually due to a natural disposition to elevate one's own stature by criticising others. You can tell when that happens because technical content is totally missing, but the emotional rejection of the opposite opinion is loud. Some folks think the more forceful their delivery, the more they will be believed. It doesn't work for me. It makes me question the message when the messenger thinks he has to yell to sound authoritative.<br>
    <br>
    We will see if I stick around. I could probably have gotten similar advice on a forum where folks didn't feel inclined to protect their favorite company when someone points out a wart on its nose. Declaring the wart is not there doesn't make it go away. It only draws into question the eyesight of those who declare it isn't there.<br>
    <br>
    Good try on the defense of your fellow welders. I'm sure you have seen them offer more professional content in this forum. I haven't yet. We will see if it is worth hanging around here. It is a toss-up right now.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Three failures denote uncommon strength. A weakling has not enough grit to fail thrice.

    -- Minna Thomas Antrim
    Last edited by RC_Allen; 02-02-2012 at 05:30 AM.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RC_Allen View Post
    I was surprised to see the personal attacks. They serve no purpose except to tickle the egos of those prone to demonstrate their superiority by such behavior. I don't take it personally, but I don't cower from it either.

    We have several solutions and I appreciate being able to share the wisdom and experience of others. I can figure out my own limitations regarding skills pretty well without help.

    Here is a picture of the controller. Note the on/off switch is at the low current end of the potentiometer like the 1960s transister radio.. It was nearly impossible to move the dial because of its size, the lip that protects it from accidental (and purposeful) movement and the effect of the gloves. The velcro attachments don't help since they slip, but tape would fix that. With the Dynasty 200DX welder a pushbutton would be much more appropriate because of the automated controls once the arc is turned off. Miller has these, but they don't supply them with the kit.

    I'll try several options including specific TIG gloves. I think the problem is solved for me, but Miller ought to supply a torch worthy of the price for the package.

    Thanks for the welcome. I'll likely have nore questions to ask if the effort is worth the hassle from the critics.
    That is the same hand control I use. No problems. Just takes skill and practice.

    Griff

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,114

    Default

    the RCCS-14 is but one of many choices the buyer could make for a control on that machine.... I am unaware of any hard wired bundle from the factory that specifies that controller.... so it was simply a matter of choice between the buyer and the dealer.... apparently it turned out to be a poor choice for the buyers purposes... but in the end it was his choice as to how he spent his money....

    Isn't it just a little unrealistic to blame Miller for your choice of hand controller??... if you have a gripe, take it up with the dealer that sold it to you...to see if you can return or exchange it... that might be more constructive....
    Last edited by H80N; 02-02-2012 at 07:48 AM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H80N View Post
    the RCCS-14 is but one of many choices the buyer could make for a control on that machine.... I am unaware of any hard wired bundle from the factory that specifies that controller.... so it was simply a matter of choice between the buyer and the dealer.... apparently it turned out to be a poor choice for the buyers purposes... but in the end it was his choice as to how he spent his money....

    Isn't it just a little unrealistic to blame Miller for your choice of hand controller??... if you have a gripe, take it up with the dealer that sold it to you...to see if you can return or exchange it... that might be more constructive....
    OK. I'll have to concede that the $747 difference between the cost of the basic welder and the kit that includes the cheap hand controller I find anemic with respect to other products is too small to justify the expense of a pushbutton separate from the current control. I suppose too that I am simply unaware of part numbers for kits that would have provided a good controller (don't think so). It was the standard kit with no choices the buyer can make. It is described as:
    PKG,DYNASTY 200 DX FINGER TIP CONTRACTOR KIT

    It is not a dealer configured option. I didn't choose it. I discovered it. It came in a Miller box.

    It is pretty clear that the benefits offered by this forum are significantly diluted by the flames and incorrect assumptions such as me having a choice of controllers in the kit. It takes too much time correcting inaccurate foundations of opinions that don't apply because fundamental beliefs are wrong. Miller makes good welders. They supply good 3rd party torches accompanied with the equivalent of a quarter size wart on one's nose. This is my opinion and anybody elses success with this controller is meaningless unless they are using it with the same welder using the same features for the same purpose. If my skill level contributes to the problem and the use of a better torch significantly improves my outome, it is still a poor reflection on the original finger controller. There is nothing that can be said to negate that.

    Thanks to everyone who offered real workarounds, and thanks to the Miller guy who understood my complaint and agreed it should have arc on/off separate from current control (if you watch this forum). I don't think it is unreasonable to expect Miller to compete on quality and useability. Lincoln offers a pushbutton on their K963-3 HAND AMPTROL (apparently designed on purpose to look like a Lincoln product). I would expect Miller to do no less. I'll enjoy my welder. I hope Miller decides to compete with superior functionality so future newbies aren't ambushed by the personal attacks because they see and describe obvious product deficiencies.

    I think I'll go find another forum where technical discussions don't offend so many people's delicate sensibilities, and where perhaps differing opinions are based on facts, the merits of which can be argued. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion - but not their own facts. You don't pick a finger controller with this kit. It isn't an option.

    H80N, thanks for your efforts to channel this dialog in a productive direction. It hasn't been entirely successful because new, and incorrect, facts keep popping up. I asked fo help, and got it from some folks. Others who wanted to educate me so I would willingly accept mediocrity as reasonable in a torch for a $4,600 welder failed miserably. All they did was make me tired. Perhaps they will take pride in that.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Observed after the failure of 2 laptops of the same make and model, 2 months apart with the same apparent problem:

    Warranties are a poor substitute for product quality.
    --Randy, circa 2011--

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,114

    Default

    Never take responsibility for your own actions or mistakes if you can blame others.... ... Good Luck!!!

    If there is a legitimate issue with a Miller product.... you are likely to hear it addressed first here on this forum.... by the same token if somebody is doing baseless bashing such as your exercise.... you can fully expect somebody to point that out as well.......

    The illogic of someone with virtually no experience with a piece of equipment pretending to give a valid critique of that equipment is laughable.... especially since the facts and history contradict that shallow critique..

    and of course there is brand loyalty here on the Miller forum... it was earned with excellent product and good support over a very long time.... that track record speaks for itself....
    Last edited by H80N; 02-02-2012 at 02:20 PM. Reason: clarity...
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Deltaville, VA
    Posts
    2,239

    Default

    I kinda dropped back after the OP's incessant b1tching began, but his "closing rant" kinda set me off.

    Some observations:

    OP is really full of himself. Definitely a superiority complex in play here. Seems to feel that all others are inferior intellectually to him.

    Of course, he fails to realize that only a dumbazz would expect to get satisfactory results with a finger control using what I suspect were mig gloves.

    I really wonder if he understands the use of the sequencer on the Dynasty. Of course, he'll probably complain that that feature wasn't "fully explained" to him either.

    I'm sure the OP won't have any trouble mastering tig welding, since HE ALREADY KNOWS IT ALL.
    Syncrowave 250 DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200 DX
    Miller XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Control
    Miller MM 251 w/Q300 & 30A SG
    Hobart HH187
    Dialarc 250 AC/DC
    Hypertherm PM 600 & 1250
    Wilton 7"x12" bandsaw
    PC Dry Cut Saw, Dewalt Chop Saw
    Milwaukee 8" Metal Cut Saw, Milwaukee Portaband.
    Thermco and Smith (2) Gas Mixers
    More grinders than hands

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Function split() is deprecated in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/footer.inc.php on line 82

Welding Projects

Special Offers: See the latest Miller deals and promotions.