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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,094

    Default

    RC
    in todays economy .....EVERYBODY is more than a little bit testy and more than a few of us can be hair trigger at times..... do not take the banter here personally.... this place is not polished or PC, but usually as a somewhat disharmonious group we manage to resolve most technical issues....

    are we getting close to resolving your need for a different control than the one you got?.... if so great... if not... help us out with more detail and direction...
    Hang in there.... and
    Welcome aboard!!!............

    BTW...I am still totally in the dark as to what hand control you ended up with as to model or make.... could you post a pic? or give us a model number....??
    Last edited by H80N; 02-01-2012 at 08:11 AM. Reason: addl info..
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RC_Allen View Post
    SundownIII's tirade is underlined:

    Did you really expect Miller (or any manufacturer) to "spoon feed" you on what you needed prior to buying a welder?

    No, but I wouldn't expect to buy a car unseen and discover you steer it with a joy stick after reading the manufacturer supplies a "road-hugging steering system". If you consider a detailed explanation with pictures or detailed specs "spoon feeding", you are sadly mistaken. I don't expect them to state in their specs that the controller is low-cost junk. I do think their interests are better served if they supplied a Weldcraft LS-1725R and add the incremental cost to the price. It would be an impressive combination compared to their competition in the form of Chinese units that do come with a pushbutton.

    Most people do their "homework" before making a purchase. If memory
    serves me correct, Miller does offer an option of a foot pedal in a
    package deal.

    SundownIII's memory serves him well, though his reasoning took the wrong fork in the road. Folks evaluate and solve problems based on their knowledge and experience, combined with imagination and reasoning skills. Those able to focus on the problem's inherent characteristics usually do a better job developing a solution than those whose thinking drifts toward previous solutions for other problems. SundownIII's reasoning efforts would be better served by dealing with the original issue rather than embarassing himself by changing the problem to fit the only solution he knows. I could be missing both feet (fortunately not the case) or be planning to weld from a short step ladder (the case). I'll get a foot controller when and if the need arises - not because a stranger thinks I should have bought one. Regarding "homework", Miller does not provide details of the fingertip controller where they offer sales information intended to attract customers. NOWHERE do they say there is no pushbutton for arc on/off, yet they offer such pushbuttons separately. My beef is that the Dynasty 200 DX welder is a top-end welder in terms of cost and features. It deserves a decent torch with appropriate arc controls to support the features of the welder.

    There have been many posts on the benefits of hand/finger tip controls
    vs the pedal. Neither is "the best" for all applications. Personally, I
    have a fingertip control, a simple on/off button, and a foot control,
    and use them all in certain applications.

    He has a pushbutton? That's what I wanted! It makes one wonder why the sarcastic remark about foot controllers and personal attacks. Then again, declaring familiarity with both might be intended to add credibility to the solution suggested. It didn't work for me.

    If you're looking for someone to "blame", then you need to look no further than the mirror in the bathroom.

    SundownIII incorrectly thinks I am looking for someone to blame for me being unaware Miller supplies an inferior fingertip controller (no button) with an otherwise excellent welder. Had he understood my post, I asked for suggestions regarding workarounds and opined that the controller supplied is useless under a gloved hand. My intent was to warn anyone considering this welder with a finger control to plan on replacing the standard controller with another available from miller or a 3rd party.

    SundownIII, take a pill. There is no need to be annoying if you read a criticism of a piece of equipment and have nothing to offer in the way of a solution. Just move on to the next post. Tirades against newcomers isn't what the forum is for, and it doesn't advance your role as a go-to guy when advice is needed. Perhaps you were out of character in this case, but on the day one throws rocks in the glass house, he defines the destiny of the glass house for the days following.

    Many thanks to folks who offered technical solutions rather than suggestions involving mirrors. I bought an LS-1725R yesterday and it solved the problem. Its fingertip controller is designed with welding gloves in mind. I'll buy the switch recommended and retrofit the original torch so I'll have a spare.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
    -- Mark Twain
    I have tried to stay out of this, till now.

    You keep taking cheap shots at Miller about their "inferior fingertip controller".
    There is nothing wrong with their fingertip controller.

    It is the lack of skill or dexterity of the operator.

    Griff

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Appleton, Wisconsin U.S.A.
    Posts
    144

    Default Weldcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by H80N View Post
    That LS-17 takes a little bit of getting used to but once you get used to it... it is very slick... especially in tight and awkward places...

    the manual for it STILL does not appear to be online yet..... I have sent them numerous emails over the last couple of years....

    but

    here is the document number for it...

    OM-235 816A/multi 2007-12

    maybe they can email it to you... if you can wake anybody over there... they build great product but their people are not terribly responsive.....
    it is an ITW company... so the lack of enthusiasm is surprising...
    sent them another email about it today....

    here is the contact link

    http://www.weldcraft.com/contact-us/


    ADDITIONALLY: I had been hoping that they would introduce an "LS-20" water cooled version of it.... they would sell a million of them.... but so far my inquiries on that whole line has met deaf ears....
    would not take a brain surgeon to flip the parts around at the factory.... but so far no interest..............
    We've shared this thread with our associates at Weldcraft who are sorry to hear about your frustration. Please let us know any torch related questions you may have and we'll get a product expert from Weldcraft to answer them for you ASAP

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller Welders View Post
    We've shared this thread with our associates at Weldcraft who are sorry to hear about your frustration. Please let us know any torch related questions you may have and we'll get a product expert from Weldcraft to answer them for you ASAP
    I did send an inquiry to Weldcraft yesterday about LS-17 literature being available.... and got a rather strange response... rather myopic at best to exclude a popular torch line from internet exposure... kinda like GM excluding Buicks because they have "dedicated".. their site to Chevrolet... hope somebody from Weldcraft could explain this rather strange response by their customer service dept.... do they not want to sell them?? here is their email...

    Thank you for your inquiry with Weldcraft.

    We do not have immediate plans to include our Legacy Series TIG Torches on www.weldcraft.com . We have committed www.weldcraft.com to our Weldcraft "WP" Series and Crafter Series TIG torches and accessories. Our Weldcraft products are well known in the welding industry around the world for performance, quality and are manufactured in Appleton WI. We hope you can understand our position to focus on our Weldcraft brand of TIG Torches and Accessories as our primary offering for TIG products.

    We receive occasional inquiries for LS17 literature, and fulfill each inquiry upon request received with either the Owner's Manual you have referenced or the attached spec sheet. We apologize for any difficulties that this may cause in locating the LS series information.

    Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns.

    Best Regards


    Weldcraft Customer Service

    Weldcraft an ITW Company
    2741 N. Roemer Road
    Appleton, WI 54911
    920.882.6800 Tel
    920.882.6840 Fax
    www.weldcraft.com

    Monday - Friday 7:00am CST - 5:00pm CST
    Last edited by H80N; 02-01-2012 at 10:11 AM. Reason: spelling.../clarity
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    162

    Default

    I too have the rotary hand control and have zero issues. With an air-cooled torch, the stiffness in the leads helps stabilize the torch position although you should have positioned for comfort and stability BEFORE striking the arc.

    I'm using thin TIG specific gloves, if any at all because much of the welding I do is under 50 amperes and very short.

    Get new gloves. Tillman is good, if you don't mind Chicom labor. There are other brands. Even mechanics gloves offer a fair amount of protection if you have learned that metal gets hot when welding. Besides, the epidermis of the hands is rather thick, that of your inside forearms isn't so wear sleeves. The epidermis will "burn" but it is dead and constantly being sloughed off. That arc "burn" smell will come off with Lava soap.

    I don't advocate welding above 50 amps GTAW without gloves or for any significant duration (over 5 minutes). But you can learn how to manipulate the torch-mounted contactor/current control easier without gloves. After some use, the off position detent "loosens up".

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,094

    Exclamation Uv....

    Personally I would not TIG weld at ANY amperage without at least thin buckskin or kidskin gloves and leather sleeves....for UV protection.... the long term UV effects are very scary... I have been around this business a long time and have seen too many cases of melanoma....strange liver spots and growths on weldors...

    Those TV shows where the guys weld bare handed make me crazy..... wonder where they will be in 20 years....
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    265

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H80N View Post

    Those TV shows where the guys weld bare handed make me crazy..... wonder where they will be in 20 years....

    I have had to use a titanium dioxide sunblock to make my hands look 20 years younger than the mug when welding gloves wasn't an option...

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Appleton, Wisconsin U.S.A.
    Posts
    144

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by H80N View Post
    I did send an inquiry to Weldcraft yesterday about LS-17 literature being available.... and got a rather strange response... rather myopic at best to exclude a popular torch line from internet exposure... kinda like GM excluding Buicks because they have "dedicated".. their site to Chevrolet... hope somebody from Weldcraft could explain this rather strange response by their customer service dept.... do they not want to sell them?? here is their email...

    Thank you for your inquiry with Weldcraft.

    We do not have immediate plans to include our Legacy Series TIG Torches on www.weldcraft.com . We have committed www.weldcraft.com to our Weldcraft "WP" Series and Crafter Series TIG torches and accessories. Our Weldcraft products are well known in the welding industry around the world for performance, quality and are manufactured in Appleton WI. We hope you can understand our position to focus on our Weldcraft brand of TIG Torches and Accessories as our primary offering for TIG products.

    We receive occasional inquiries for LS17 literature, and fulfill each inquiry upon request received with either the Owner's Manual you have referenced or the attached spec sheet. We apologize for any difficulties that this may cause in locating the LS series information.

    Please let us know if you have any additional questions or concerns.

    Best Regards


    Weldcraft Customer Service

    Weldcraft an ITW Company
    2741 N. Roemer Road
    Appleton, WI 54911
    920.882.6800 Tel
    920.882.6840 Fax
    www.weldcraft.com

    Monday - Friday 7:00am CST - 5:00pm CST
    A Weldcraft representative will be in touch with you to discuss the matter further.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    3,094

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miller Welders View Post
    A Weldcraft representative will be in touch with you to discuss the matter further.
    I would hope that they do that here on the forum as this is a matter that would be a resource and be of interes to many members here.... not to me personally.... that would be odd..... and not very useful...

    Let me clarify....The Weldcraft LS-17 is probably one of the most popular torch options for the Dynasty 200.. because of control integration and portability issues....... I have a personal hardcopy of the manual for this model torch as I have a LS-17 on my Dynasty 200DX.... however it is of little utility to other members when information on the forum needs to be passed on... such as on this thread.... would it be that tough to give us a link where a PDF of the manual and data sheet could be downloaded...???

    I apologize to the OP for the sidetracking of this thread... I had no intention of hijaking it.... we could have possibly answered his question had the info been easily accessable....
    Last edited by H80N; 02-01-2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason: clarity..
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know......

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam..

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by griff01 View Post
    I have tried to stay out of this, till now.

    You keep taking cheap shots at Miller about their "inferior fingertip controller".
    There is nothing wrong with their fingertip controller.

    It is the lack of skill or dexterity of the operator.

    Griff
    Another useless post. The fingertip controller is inferior, contrary to your declarations otherwise. I suspect you don't have direct knowledge of the particular controller and welder combination or you would have justified a technical opinion contradicting mine rather than submit one based on emotion supported with only personal criticism. And, my skill and dexterity will improve with practice using a better torch. This reminds me of a story where Winston Churchill was supposedly chastised by a woman declaring "Mr. Churchill, you are drunk!" It was reported that he retorted "Yes, I am. And, in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly." I expect my skill and dexterity will improve subject to inherent limitations that you need not concern yourself with.

    Otherwise this has been an interesting thread when real advice and comments were offered. Many thanks to all.

    Respect those who seek the truth, be wary of those who claim to have found it.
    ----Mark Twain----

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