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  1. #1

    Default Stacking Miller Synchrowave 180 SD Tig on top of Millermatic 251

    I just bought a Syncrowave 180 SD. It weighs in at 240lb. I already own a millermatic 251 that weighs in at 214 lb. Plus my accessories, spoolgun, wires, inverter style plasma cutter and blah blah blah. Lack of space in my shop and common gas tanks means these are getting stacked. I already has a nice factory double tank cart that came with my millermatic. My question, should I build the frame onto the millermatic's factory frame or build an exoskeleton frame around the millermatic to hold the syncrowave and plasma, therefore transfer the weight to the base cart?

    Also has anyone hardwired their units together so there is only one plug for the whole apparatus?

    This is just for the frame work, I plan on have drawers and cubbys and holders.


    2003 Dodge 3500 Cummins
    25' Hydraulic Tilt Lowboy Gooseneck
    1997 Corvette 6 Speed
    Harley Hardtail Bobber
    Millermatic 251 with 30A spoolgun
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Cut40 Plasma Cutter

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    596

    Default

    hi, its difficult to tell by photo but appears the 180 is the wider of the two as you view it from front. It would help if you would list the dimensions of each. I have a older 180SD and will get picture of what I did with my CST 280 above. I would say if 180 is wider and heavier that should be the bottom or it maybe top heavy. I feel there should be a separate frame work for the 180 with shelf above for the 251. Yes, independent cart for all a must. I would never trust the welders frame.

  3. #3

    Default

    The syncro is wider by 1.5" inches but not nearly as deep. This gives me the opportunity to place the inverter plasma behind it. The 251 has such a nice factory cart that I hate to discard it for something new. I am going to build an exoskeleton for it I have decided.
    2003 Dodge 3500 Cummins
    25' Hydraulic Tilt Lowboy Gooseneck
    1997 Corvette 6 Speed
    Harley Hardtail Bobber
    Millermatic 251 with 30A spoolgun
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Cut40 Plasma Cutter

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Plainview, TX
    Posts
    334

    Default Pros and Cons to Stacking.

    Unless you are just deprived of floorspace, stacking is questionable with these machines.

    CONS:
    1.) Pure Dead Weight of the combined welders, cartage, bottles, etc.
    2.) Needed clearance of swing door on 251 for Wire Spool Access. Unless you use 10# spools exclusively, trying to place a 33# or 44# spool of wire and holding up a door at the same time...well kinda dumb. Sure you could make a catch, but why.
    3.) Having to move both machines together when you may need only one.
    4.) What if you have two projects, in different areas of your shop?
    5.) Both #3 and #4 refer back to #1.
    6.) Having to drag 2 sets of power cables every where you move to, especially if HARD WIRED to disconnects.
    7.) Reaching controls may require a step stool or ladder to reach to make changes or adjustments.

    PROS:
    1.) Saves Floor Space
    2.) Works great as long as you work only in one spot.

    My father had built a stand to put the Marquette 295 over the MM 200 at one time. The Marquette had 50 ft Work Lead and 75 ft Electrode Lead, so it could stay in one spot. The MM 200 had a 50 ft supply cord and could be dragged where it was needed. The rack was high enough to clear a 220 cu. ft. bottle no problem, but we had to keep a step ladder handy to change the Lead Position on the Marquette since the connectors were at the top of the machine.

    Something else to think about, the center of gravity on the machines now, are low to the ground. The weight of the elevated machine will move the center of gravity of the combined units much higher off the ground and will raise the chance of tip over and result in servere damage if not loss of one or both machines when the crash happens, especially if designed to be mobile. Something to think about.
    Last edited by flukecej; 12-28-2011 at 08:55 PM.
    '77 Miller Bluestar 2E on current service truck
    '99 Miller Bobcat 225NT for New Service Truck
    '85 Millermatic 200 in Shop

    '72 Marquete 295 AC cracker box in Shop
    '07 Hypertherm Powermax 1000 G3 Plasma Cutter in Shop
    Miller Elite and Digital Elite Hoods

  5. #5

    Default

    I honestly need the room and the welders will be sharing gas bottles. My shop is 2 levels, the lower level is 17x23 and has my lift in it, the upper level is my workshop and is 20x24. I am running out of room up there between the press, tire changer, balancer, metal rack, tripod jack, shelves, workbench, welding table, sand blast cabinet, drill press, and more shelves. I also plan on adding a brake, english wheel, and planishing hammer soon. I have to conserve space. Anything out of reach of the where the welders will sit will be welded with my spoolmatic 30a with 30ft leads. I have had the same 44 lb roll in her since 2007. I want to wire all three machines to one plug. These machines will not move often, just if I need to get to that corner.
    2003 Dodge 3500 Cummins
    25' Hydraulic Tilt Lowboy Gooseneck
    1997 Corvette 6 Speed
    Harley Hardtail Bobber
    Millermatic 251 with 30A spoolgun
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Cut40 Plasma Cutter

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cave Creek Az
    Posts
    963

    Default

    Just remember, you need to access the side panel of that MM251 from time to time to change wire. Also, to stack that much weight, that high, on that little footprint is a disaster in the making. Just patk one or both underneath on of you work benches, or build a slot into one of you shelf units to park them in.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    northern NJ
    Posts
    1,831

    Default

    First off you mention about using common welding tanks for mig & tig. They use different gases so you will need two tanks minimum.

    As for the cart I don't see why it couldn't be done. I would make a seperate frame. Make the footprint of the cart as large as you can & use high quality casters installed as close to the corners as possible. Be cautious when moving as mentioned before you will have a high center of gravity. As far as wiring them together you can use one power cable to the cart & then two plugs mounted on the cart to plug in the machines. Kinda like an oversize power strip. As long as it is done "right" there would be no problems.
    Last edited by MMW; 12-29-2011 at 05:25 AM.
    MM250
    Trailblazer 250g
    22a feeder
    Lincoln ac/dc 225
    Victor O/A
    MM200 black face
    Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
    Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
    Arco roto-phase model M
    Vectrax 7x12 band saw
    Miller spectrum 875
    30a spoolgun w/wc-24
    Syncrowave 250
    RCCS-14

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    596

    Thumbs up

    Hi, here's what I did with my 180SD . The CST 280 is above it and have space for the MILLER 211 to go along side it. Just didn't buy it yet. I have the same situation, TO many goodies! But you can never have enough!P1000302for web.jpg
    Last edited by BD1; 12-29-2011 at 11:28 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Plainview, TX
    Posts
    334

    Default Flip your stack order.

    A better idea on the stacking, put the 251 on top. The 180SD is wider and heavier and doesn't have any access ports or panels that would require excess spacing between machines. You would still be able to access the wire panel on the 251 without it being to high. Best to have the weight and width at the bottom and keeping the center of gravity lower as well. Also, you can fit a twin bottle rack on the rear and fix it like some of Miller's that make the platform close to the ground.
    Plus, removing the current running gear from the machines and using good quality casters mounted the corners as suggested will help lower the overall rack height.
    Your idea of the single cord to two plugs on the machine cart, that is a great idea.
    '77 Miller Bluestar 2E on current service truck
    '99 Miller Bobcat 225NT for New Service Truck
    '85 Millermatic 200 in Shop

    '72 Marquete 295 AC cracker box in Shop
    '07 Hypertherm Powermax 1000 G3 Plasma Cutter in Shop
    Miller Elite and Digital Elite Hoods

  10. #10

    Default

    I started the rack today. I did end up putting the syncro on bottom. The 251 has an integrated bottle holder on it, so I will literally have to cut the rear of the 251 frame off.

    Someone mentioned not using the same shielding gas. My spool gun and tigging aluminum both use argon. I will post some pictures when I am done with the racks.
    2003 Dodge 3500 Cummins
    25' Hydraulic Tilt Lowboy Gooseneck
    1997 Corvette 6 Speed
    Harley Hardtail Bobber
    Millermatic 251 with 30A spoolgun
    Syncrowave 180SD
    Cut40 Plasma Cutter

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