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  1. #1
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    Default DIALARC 250 AC/DC and a HF-251D-1 Compatablity Issues

    I am completely new to GTAW and need some help/advice. I have a white faced older DIALARC 250 AC/DC and a HF-251D-1. I have read from previous posts that this is not an optimal setup because there is no contactor on the older DIALARC machine. In the HF manual it mentions that the HF unit can be "field equipped" with output control (contactor) for use with welding units without a contactor, does anyone know if Miller still offers this output control for older HF models ? The DIALARC is from the early 70's and the HF I think from the late 80's. The TIG torch has a hand control for gas flow and High Frequency but I would love to get a foot pedal current control device for the TIG. Any help is greatly appreciated !

  2. #2
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    Oct 2011
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    Default

    You have the same problem that I have... I just read about the secondary contactor for the HF unit and the part number is 041969. Dont know if we can order one or not and still unsure if this is the only part we need. Let me know if you find out anything on this please.

    Weldfabulous has one for 414.00
    Last edited by goodguy014; 10-25-2011 at 01:00 PM.

  3. #3
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    Oct 2011
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    Default

    FYI,
    I just got off the phone with Miller and the guy said you would need the secondary contactor for the hf unit part #041969, RFC 23a foot pedal and part #041111 switch for the dialarc to be able to control it remotely.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Did you get a cost for all that gear?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Orange, TX
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    Default

    Both of those items are field kits and still available. miller4less.com is a good source. The RFC-23A (242199020) is also available at miller4less.com for $334.68
    and occassionally used on ebay, craigslist, etc.

    041 111 is $54.29
    041 969 is (are you sitting down?) $414.31

    041 111 is more than a switch. It's the single pole double throw (SPDT) switch required to select either panel or remote current control as well as the 3 wire, 3 pole 20A, 250V twist-lock receptacle to plug the RFC-23A into. It also includes a selector switch label and required hardware. The field kit is convenient but the components (other than the label) can be picked up for less.

    You can see what 041 969 field contactor kit looks like on the second page of the HF-251 flyer http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/AY5-0.pdf. Half way down on the left. The kit comes with the contactor and everything to hook it up same as the remote kit. Again, the kit is convenient but other options could be less expensive if one knew what they were doing to make the modification.

    The RFC-23A would need to be equipped with a 14-pin plug on the 2-conductor cable to mate up to the HF-251D for contactor control and the 3-conductor cable set up with a 3-prong twist-lock to plug into the new Dialarc remote current control receptacle. There's at least one other way to connect it all up but it would require a lot more modifying and again, one would need to have to know what they are doing.
    Last edited by duaneb55; 10-29-2011 at 03:26 PM. Reason: speling airer
    MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180 SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
    *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
    *HF-251D-1
    *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
    PakMaster 100XL
    Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

  6. #6
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    WOW I was sitting down but that still is ridiculous so its almost 800$ for all the controls? I cant justify that any way you look at it ! I still need to find parts for the torch to get it complete. I plan on posting another thread about the missing torch parts hopefully it wont cost 800$ !

  7. #7
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    Default

    I said the field kits were convenient. They're just not cheap.


    However, I'd say one could set the Dialarc 250 up with the equivalent of the remote field kit and a contactor with local/remote control for a couple hundred or less. A 3-pole AC motor contactor with an 80-100 amp rating with a 115/120VAC coil would do the trick. 2 and 3-prong twist lock plugs and receptacles are standard items as are the single pole double throw (SPDT) toggle switches that would be needed.

    Used RFC-23A's can be found for reasonable prices as well so I would think you could make it all happen for less than half the field kit and new RFC-23A total cost.
    MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180 SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
    *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
    *HF-251D-1
    *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
    PakMaster 100XL
    Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

  8. #8
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    Default

    Has anyone wired a setup like the one you describe? I am no electrical engineer but I can follow a wiring diagram.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Location
    Orange, TX
    Posts
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    Yup. If you'll give me the Dialarc SN and have a little patience I can work up a modification schematic and list of materials for you.
    MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180 SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
    *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
    *HF-251D-1
    *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
    PakMaster 100XL
    Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Orange, TX
    Posts
    1,191

    Default

    Actually, I'll do one better and tell you to check out the circuit diagram and wiring diagram shown on pages 19-21 of the Dialarc HF manual http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o315u_mil.pdf that will show you exactly what is needed wiring wise for both the remote control and weld output contactor.

    Disregard the water and gas valves as well as the post flow timer and focus on the weld contactor "W" coil and contacts. You also won't have the temperature switches either unless you want to go to that extreme.

    If you want to duplicate the 24VAC contactor control you'll have to add a 120/240V to 24V transformer and the motor contactor you choose will have to have a 24VAC coil. Otherwise, you can set up a 115V contactor control circuit and use a more common 115V coil contactor.
    MM200 w/spot controller and Spoolmatic 1
    Syncrowave 180 SD
    Bobcat 225G Plus LPG/NG w/14-pin*
    *Homemade Suitcase Wire Feeder
    *HF-251D-1
    *WC-1S & Spoolmatic 1
    PakMaster 100XL
    Marquette "Star Jet" 21-110

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