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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    16

    Default Seeking Advice/tips/hints for mild steel, 6011 root pass,

    i'm half way through my first year welding

    passed a first try at a flat position, butt joint, with 30 degree bevels on either side (no feather edge)

    I was wondering if anyone could possibly post some tips or hints that could be used to get quality welds in each position (flat, horizontal, vertical, overhead)
    i've only tried flat and horizontal so far

    root pass with 6011
    5 filler passes with 7018

    Sorry for the slack paintshop drawing, but below is a project picture to show what we have to do



    Flat position
    6011 = setting of 60-75 seemed to work for me, 20-45 degree travel angle, whip and pause motion (i still find starting and ending, i wont burn through the tacks as well as id like too, need practice

    7018 = (first pass) travel angle, small circles stringer all the way across, i set it to about 110-125
    (second-6th) travel angle, aimed at toes , stringer(leaving the top edges exposed for guidlines for 5/6th passes)

    Horizontal position
    6011 = setting 90, whip pause, travel anglle, 0-20 upward angle
    7018 = 110-125 setting, 0-10 degree angle up comprensate for gravity, stringers

    More advice or tips or hints for all positions would be muchly appreciated, thanks in advance

    THANKS in advance for any advice, its much appreciated

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Gretna, Nebraska
    Posts
    35

    Post

    No advice except practice practice practice everything else sounds right hang in their you will get it

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    673

    Smile

    I'm in a weld class taking O/A, but I've made friends with a long time welder that's trying to get pipe certified. He's had trouble for weeks with his root pass.

    He was finally able to get with his friend, who IS a PW, with a job. The guy showed him not to use whip and pause. He said use a tiny, smooth, circular motion. No whipping or pausing in that circle. I know that I don't know how to weld cert's. But I've read my brains out and know what questions to ask and what to look for in a decent weld. This guy showed me a cut out section, so we could look right at the root pass. It was darn near perfect. There were no droop throughs or holes. And he was excited about being able to repeat it any time he wanted, saying the circular motion was the secret. He's welding with the pipe section at 45*. It's about 2" diameter.

    PS I beleive he's using 6010.
    Last edited by Craig in Denver; 02-06-2008 at 12:20 AM. Reason: Added PS
    RETIRED desk jockey.

    Hobby weldor with a little training.

    Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz.

    Miller Syncrowave 250.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    16

    Default

    thanks very much for that, i will try tiny circular motion tomorrow to see how it goes. much appreciated....

    i discovered that i can do a whip and pause root pass in all positions and they look very neat,uniformed and consistant

    (horizontal)
    but still cant get full penetration, just flush, or even with the two plates

    thought it might have been to wide of a gap i had, closed it up some but i got same result (flush)
    tried again with same gap but with a smaller arc gap (just barely touching the plate) but i found when i whipped, metal would build up in front of the rod instead of widening the keyhole, then id just stop and be left with a hole, not good looking at all

    i may try a little bit more amps with a vertical type whip and pause method

    my digi pic cam dont have macros for really close up, might be able to get a shaddy pic of it tho

    i found vertical penetrated more and was fairly easy to maintain the keyhole going up one side, down, across , up other side, etc, worked out well for a first try
    overhead was pretty simple too, except again for the flushness and no convexed root.

    practice, practice i guess
    Last edited by DiabolicaL; 02-06-2008 at 08:43 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    673

    Smile Camera tip

    Try this with your camera. Instead of forcing a close-up shot, which will be blurry, turn up the resolution, take a shot from the closest distance your camera can handle, then crop the photo in your photo editor of only the portion you want. It should be in focus. Maybe.
    RETIRED desk jockey.

    Hobby weldor with a little training.

    Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz.

    Miller Syncrowave 250.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Rochester, New York
    Posts
    20

    Default Root passes

    Don't even waste your time practicing on 6011 rod..........you'll never use it in the real welding world sh**t sucks donno why they even make it...........No strenghten, flux sticks bad and it's only for corners screw that ........ Kiddo....... in the businees ya only need 2 rods........jet rod (7024 ) for flat AC BTW........7018 ( for vertical or flat ) but moucho strenght ............ those groves look to me like a welding test ur doing ?....... if it's vertical use 7018 from bottom up ...... ya wanna over lap each pass as you have it for sure ........ ya said nothing about GMAW ....... thee best..... but don't use co 2........... 88% 12 % mix is best fer steel .......... overhead welding is an art I bought a PLUSE MIG OTC for doing that sh**t , works wonders for SS vertical , overhead, or whatever........ I got what works, and don't have to work hard to use it .......... this welder I use for overhead nothing can compete with it...........why try a stick rod ?????????

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Rochester, New York
    Posts
    20

    Default Root passes

    Don't even waste your time practicing on 6011 rod..........you'll never use it in the real welding world sh**t sucks donno why they even make it...........No strenghten, flux sticks bad and it's only for corners screw that ........ Kiddo....... in the businees ya only need 2 rods........jet rod (7024 ) for flat AC BTW........7018 ( for vertical or flat ) but moucho strenght ............ those groves look to me like a welding test ur doing ?....... if it's vertical use 7018 from bottom up ...... ya wanna over lap each pass as you have it for sure ........ ya said nothing about GMAW ....... thee best..... but don't use co 2........... 88% 12 % mix is best fer steel .......... overhead welding is an art I bought a PLUSE MIG OTC for doing that sh**t , works wonders for SS vertical , overhead, or whatever........ I got what works, and don't have to work hard to use it .......... this welder I use for overhead nothing can compete with it...........why try a stick rod ?????????

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fraser Valley, BC
    Posts
    593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom C View Post
    Don't even waste your time practicing on 6011 rod..........you'll never use it in the real welding world sh**t sucks donno why they even make it...........No strenghten, flux sticks bad and it's only for corners screw that ........ Kiddo....... in the businees ya only need 2 rods........jet rod (7024 ) for flat AC BTW........7018 ( for vertical or flat ) but moucho strenght ............ those groves look to me like a welding test ur doing ?....... if it's vertical use 7018 from bottom up ...... ya wanna over lap each pass as you have it for sure ........ ya said nothing about GMAW ....... thee best..... but don't use co 2........... 88% 12 % mix is best fer steel .......... overhead welding is an art I bought a PLUSE MIG OTC for doing that sh**t , works wonders for SS vertical , overhead, or whatever........ I got what works, and don't have to work hard to use it .......... this welder I use for overhead nothing can compete with it...........why try a stick rod ?????????
    Really, I guess nobody uses **10 rods anymore? I guess I didn't get that memo.

    **10 and **11 rods are quite similar and practice with **11 will give you a good idea on what you are doing. **11, I find, are more forgiving and look a little cleaner if you are not going to cover it up with another pass. Both work wonders on less the clean steel. (I'm not lazy, just efficieny minded.)
    Dynasty 200DX, first generation
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    Whole bunch of hand/air tools.
    and a wish list a mile long

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DiabolicaL View Post
    i'm half way through my first year welding

    passed a first try at a flat position, butt joint, with 30 degree bevels on either side (no feather edge)

    I was wondering if anyone could possibly post some tips or hints that could be used to get quality welds in each position (flat, horizontal, vertical, overhead)
    i've only tried flat and horizontal so far

    root pass with 6011
    5 filler passes with 7018

    Sorry for the slack paintshop drawing, but below is a project picture to show what we have to do



    Flat position
    6011 = setting of 60-75 seemed to work for me, 20-45 degree travel angle, whip and pause motion (i still find starting and ending, i wont burn through the tacks as well as id like too, need practice

    7018 = (first pass) travel angle, small circles stringer all the way across, i set it to about 110-125
    (second-6th) travel angle, aimed at toes , stringer(leaving the top edges exposed for guidlines for 5/6th passes)

    Horizontal position
    6011 = setting 90, whip pause, travel anglle, 0-20 upward angle
    7018 = 110-125 setting, 0-10 degree angle up comprensate for gravity, stringers

    More advice or tips or hints for all positions would be muchly appreciated, thanks in advance

    THANKS in advance for any advice, its much appreciated
    6011 In the flat turn it up like hor. 85-90 amps
    when we did open groove in school the object was to put a bead on the opp side of plate.1/16-1/8 max root reinforcement. Keep a tight arc and dont whip out to far of the puddle.Develope a cadence with each pause this will keep the penetration equal. Pratice that and you will have no problems. Its a easier rod to handle compared to 6010 even though same technique will be used.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shorerider16 View Post
    Really, I guess nobody uses **10 rods anymore? I guess I didn't get that memo.

    **10 and **11 rods are quite similar and practice with **11 will give you a good idea on what you are doing. **11, I find, are more forgiving and look a little cleaner if you are not going to cover it up with another pass. Both work wonders on less the clean steel. (I'm not lazy, just efficieny minded.)
    Totally agree I do.

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