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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Van Buren, ME
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lu47Dan View Post
    Nice table , but the tool hangers and 11-R vise grips are a pain in the rear end . I had hangers on my table and found out that it was more convenient to just clamp them on to the rail with the release lever pointing in to the center of the table , they do not get knocked off neither do they fall off if you are pounding on the table JMTC . Other than that it is a real pretty table
    On the outlets on the table , I have smoked one extension cord in my shop when welding and it was not on my welding bench ! My bench has an outlet (GFCI) mounted to it and have not had any problems in 17 years of use . The outlet will trip if I use my 2050 close to it but it works just fine . The cord that smoked carried the full welding amperage from the work piece , through an old 1/4 B&D drill down another cord to a reciprocal saw and back into the ground clamp that had fallen off . Both tools had a three prong grounding plug , I replaced the ground clamp and have never had it happen again . Dan
    Hi Dan,

    The strip below my hangers was intended to clamp my 11R vise-grips to when not in use. I also thought about making rail across the back of my table to also store my clamps. I never intended to store the clamps on the pegs but they ended up when I cleaned up. Unfortunately I have haven't used the table enough yet to figure out where everything should go but fortunately I haven't done anything more permanent to not be able to change things around. I'll keep everyone posted.

    Do you think it would be beneficial to change out my outlets to GFCI? I imagine it would make sense to have the extra protection and not be tripping breakers at the box - much easier to reset the outlet.

    Thanks for your input!

    - Chad
    - Millermatic DVI2
    - Victor Super Range II O/A Torch
    - Milwaukee Dry Cut Chop Saw
    - Milwaukee Super Magnum 4.5" Grinder
    - Compact Bender w/ Scroll Attachment
    - Band/Ring Roller

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Van Buren, ME
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
    Too true. My dad does wood working, so his bench is wood rather than steel, and the solution we came up with was to weld nuts to a 3/16 piece of plate, mount it to the underside of the bench, and just bolt or un-bolt the vise as necessary. It saves fumbling around with nuts, washers and a second wrench, so you're more inclined to move (or use) the vise rather than try to work around it.

    -Morgan
    Quote Originally Posted by jeepnjim View Post
    Good looking table. As far as the vise goes i mounted mine on a piece of 1/4 plate that was welded to a piece of 2x2x1/4 tubing which slips into a piece of trailer hitch reciever tubing welded to the bottom of the table. I also welded 3/8 nots to the reciever part so the vise could be held securly with out wiggling.
    JIM
    Good thinking guys - I will take a hard look at my options may possibly weld my mounting nuts under the table and have more than one set of mounting locations just in case. This would allow for quick change around, especially with air tools handy.

    Thanks!
    - Chad
    - Millermatic DVI2
    - Victor Super Range II O/A Torch
    - Milwaukee Dry Cut Chop Saw
    - Milwaukee Super Magnum 4.5" Grinder
    - Compact Bender w/ Scroll Attachment
    - Band/Ring Roller

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    N/W Pa.
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Chad , the GFCI outlet was put on the welding table when I broke the face of the original outlet (non GFCI) , I had them laying around from a job site i worked on . These ones were brown and for use as temporary power while construction was going on , since OHSA required them for us to work in there , the electricians just swapped out the old outlets with these . I was working in the area when they replaced these with the permanent ones , I got about 2 dozen of them . That is why I had them . Now to your question , no not on the table but where you plug in the extension cord would be a good Idea . A single GFCI can protect several outlets down stream from them , so replacing the one you plug into would protect them and anything else plugged into it . Dan
    Tools to Men are like Shoes to Women you can never have too many .
    Miller XMT-304
    Miller Spectrum 2050
    Miller 10-E Feeder
    Hobart 175 Handler
    Lincoln AC225
    And assorted others

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    162

    Talking

    wanna trade? ..............lmao I'll trade you for my wood table. looks awesome. that will be one of my future projects. thanks for the ideas.
    Syncro250DX Tigrunner
    Victor set
    Elite auto-helmet
    Dewalt Bench grinder
    Mastercraft miter saw
    Mac air tools
    Mac hand tools
    Toothbrush
    pencil
    toilet paper

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Springfield, MO
    Posts
    35

    Default let me try to tackle your electrical "what if's".....

    Hello Chad! thanks for posting your pics! & very nice table! hey, I meant to chime in yesterday about your electrical problem or the potential of there being a problem or fire hazard, but the day got away from me. & I wanted to think about all the “what if’s” scenario’s a little bit. Because I too thought that was a brilliant idea of having receptacle’s mounted on the welding table. & let me back-up for just one second, I am an electrical engineer or at least I do have a 4 year degree in electrical engineering. But I only worked as an EE for less then a year until I decided to become a rig welder. Office life was not for me, especially because I say the “F” word way to often… lol But this doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m correct though, but I checked the new national electrical code book this morning to make sure the fix is to code.

    Anyway, the “what if” scenario that WILL happen because I do it every day! Let's just you was to forget to hook-up the ground cable to your table (or to whatever your welding...) & then you try to weld. Of course nothing happens except now in your case you have provided an alternative path for current flow, via the ground wire thru your new 110v receptacle circuit on the table. Even if you had a GFI installed on your source coming from the wall, the GFI would never see this current on the ground wire to know to open, because a GFI only looks & compares the current on the hot leg wire & the neutral wire to make sure they’re equal or with within 5 milliamps, anything greater & the GFI opens the circuit. The GFI will not nor will the breaker at your box ever open the ground wire!!! (nothing will...) So in short, if this scenario plays out, that welder could/can & would easily melt that ground wire causing a fire hazard. Just imagine if you had 100 amps dialed in on your welder & the only way it could complete the circuit was going thru your what, 12 gauge(?) ground wire…? That welder would just laugh because that ground wire wouldn’t stand a chance…

    Ok, if your still with me on this, what’s the correct fix…? I had to refer to the new national code book & I am assuming you live in a fairly new home with updated wiring? (unlike my early 70’s home that back then they didn’t have to run the 3rd ground wire to the receptacles...) If that’s the case then yes, install a GFI receptacle in the “wall” to where you plug in your table to protect any stray currents that might make it to your neutral, but do not connect ground wire (leave it unhooked). This way you’ll never have a fire hazard within the walls going back to where ever all your ground wires eventually go to earth/ground & yes, this is acceptable by code. & yes, you'll also be protected if the electrical tool you have plugged to your table by this GFI also.

    & when i said any "stray" currents above, i mean lets say you did hook-up the welding machine's ground and your welding along, true, the electrical current produced by the welder should take the path of less resistance thru the welders ground, but by not connecting the ground on the 110v receptacle we now know for a fact that nothing follow this path...... we can "what if" all day long, but its time for me to go home & my heads hurting........

    I hope that made sense & please guy’s, did I over look anything? & thanks Chad for the electrical concern you brought to the table…………. At least now I can say I didn’t waste for years of life for nothing…. lol & I welcome you to this website Chad! good luck to ya! rodney

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Van Buren, ME
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lu47Dan View Post
    Chad , the GFCI outlet was put on the welding table when I broke the face of the original outlet (non GFCI) , I had them laying around from a job site i worked on . These ones were brown and for use as temporary power while construction was going on , since OHSA required them for us to work in there , the electricians just swapped out the old outlets with these . I was working in the area when they replaced these with the permanent ones , I got about 2 dozen of them . That is why I had them . Now to your question , no not on the table but where you plug in the extension cord would be a good Idea . A single GFCI can protect several outlets down stream from them , so replacing the one you plug into would protect them and anything else plugged into it . Dan
    Thanks for the clarification and elaboration. I have a few GFCI and will probably install a few in the garage just for the purpose.

    - Chad
    - Millermatic DVI2
    - Victor Super Range II O/A Torch
    - Milwaukee Dry Cut Chop Saw
    - Milwaukee Super Magnum 4.5" Grinder
    - Compact Bender w/ Scroll Attachment
    - Band/Ring Roller

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Van Buren, ME
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustyhaze75 View Post
    wanna trade? ..............lmao I'll trade you for my wood table. looks awesome. that will be one of my future projects. thanks for the ideas.
    LOL... I'll give you it when I break down and build myself a 4'x8' table once I erect my dream steel building workshop.

    Cheers!
    - Chad
    - Millermatic DVI2
    - Victor Super Range II O/A Torch
    - Milwaukee Dry Cut Chop Saw
    - Milwaukee Super Magnum 4.5" Grinder
    - Compact Bender w/ Scroll Attachment
    - Band/Ring Roller

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Van Buren, ME
    Posts
    43

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by handirod View Post
    Hello Chad! thanks for posting your pics! & very nice table! hey, I meant to chime in yesterday about your electrical problem or the potential of there being a problem or fire hazard, but the day got away from me. & I wanted to think about all the “what if’s” scenario’s a little bit. Because I too thought that was a brilliant idea of having receptacle’s mounted on the welding table. & let me back-up for just one second, I am an electrical engineer or at least I do have a 4 year degree in electrical engineering. But I only worked as an EE for less then a year until I decided to become a rig welder. Office life was not for me, especially because I say the “F” word way to often… lol But this doesn’t necessarily mean that I’m correct though, but I checked the new national electrical code book this morning to make sure the fix is to code.

    Anyway, the “what if” scenario that WILL happen because I do it every day! Let's just you was to forget to hook-up the ground cable to your table (or to whatever your welding...) & then you try to weld. Of course nothing happens except now in your case you have provided an alternative path for current flow, via the ground wire thru your new 110v receptacle circuit on the table. Even if you had a GFI installed on your source coming from the wall, the GFI would never see this current on the ground wire to know to open, because a GFI only looks & compares the current on the hot leg wire & the neutral wire to make sure they’re equal or with within 5 milliamps, anything greater & the GFI opens the circuit. The GFI will not nor will the breaker at your box ever open the ground wire!!! (nothing will...) So in short, if this scenario plays out, that welder could/can & would easily melt that ground wire causing a fire hazard. Just imagine if you had 100 amps dialed in on your welder & the only way it could complete the circuit was going thru your what, 12 gauge(?) ground wire…? That welder would just laugh because that ground wire wouldn’t stand a chance…

    Ok, if your still with me on this, what’s the correct fix…? I had to refer to the new national code book & I am assuming you live in a fairly new home with updated wiring? (unlike my early 70’s home that back then they didn’t have to run the 3rd ground wire to the receptacles...) If that’s the case then yes, install a GFI receptacle in the “wall” to where you plug in your table to protect any stray currents that might make it to your neutral, but do not connect ground wire (leave it unhooked). This way you’ll never have a fire hazard within the walls going back to where ever all your ground wires eventually go to earth/ground & yes, this is acceptable by code. & yes, you'll also be protected if the electrical tool you have plugged to your table by this GFI also.

    & when i said any "stray" currents above, i mean lets say you did hook-up the welding machine's ground and your welding along, true, the electrical current produced by the welder should take the path of less resistance thru the welders ground, but by not connecting the ground on the 110v receptacle we now know for a fact that nothing follow this path...... we can "what if" all day long, but its time for me to go home & my heads hurting........

    I hope that made sense & please guy’s, did I over look anything? & thanks Chad for the electrical concern you brought to the table…………. At least now I can say I didn’t waste for years of life for nothing…. lol & I welcome you to this website Chad! good luck to ya! rodney
    Hi Rodney!

    Thanks for the extensive answer to my outlet dilema. I am very electrically/electronically inclined so I follow you completely. I just don't know structural electrical codes and techniques all to well since my background is aircraft avionics and automotive electrical.

    I understand how a GFCI outlet at the wall receptical could protect from an overcurrent creeping through from my table as long as I disconnect the ground from my extension cord to my table outlets. I had thought of this scenario before I built my table but I was missing something since we have a similar setup on our welding table at work.

    One of my ideas was to completely isolate my outlets from the table so they would not share an electrical path. Although a ground circuit could possibly be established if I would plug in a tool such as a grinder and place it on the table in a manner that there would be metal to metal contact. Of course your suggestion of eliminating the ground connection table outlets would make this a non issue.

    Let me run this by you also... What if I installed a small but appropriately rated electrical load center onto my table and fed it 230V-40A via a 35-foot 6/3 cable from my current 230V outlet? Could I grab and breaker the 115V-10A for my outlets and the 230V 30A for my welder from this feed? Wouldn't this setup "eliminate" (vastly reduce) the danger of smoking wires while allowing me to have convenience of being able to plug my welder into my table. This would make my table much more mobile and give me that extra reach I want. I was going to buy a heavy gauge extension cable anyhow.

    Another option would just to get a 4ga wire and ground it to the table and run it outside to a grounding rod. Although not very convenient, it would be very effective. LOL

    Thanks a bunch for your help!

    - Chad
    - Millermatic DVI2
    - Victor Super Range II O/A Torch
    - Milwaukee Dry Cut Chop Saw
    - Milwaukee Super Magnum 4.5" Grinder
    - Compact Bender w/ Scroll Attachment
    - Band/Ring Roller

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    N/W Pa.
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Rodney , IF and it's a Big If , I understand the way a welder makes the welding current through the transformer , there would not be any flow without a completed circuit . So if you forgot to hook up the ground clamp to the table (unless it had an alternate path) the chance that there would be a problem is zero . I use positioners all the time at work and they are grounded to the Fab shops electrical system . I have seen one that got burnt up by welding current and that was because the stinger fell onto the metal housing of the foot switch and the control wiring completed the welding circuit . The insulators on the stinger were broken , so when it fell there was no protection . All the beat up stingers were replaced the next day . This happened when we were on break ! normally the welder would have seen what was happening before it got that far . Just my experience for what it is worth . Dan
    Tools to Men are like Shoes to Women you can never have too many .
    Miller XMT-304
    Miller Spectrum 2050
    Miller 10-E Feeder
    Hobart 175 Handler
    Lincoln AC225
    And assorted others

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Springfield, MO
    Posts
    35

    Default hello chad....

    Chad, your killing me! I AM just kidding because I actually enjoy trying to figure out electrical problems. I laughed & was glad when you caught that about completing the circuit if had a grinder plugged in & put it down on the table. I too thought of that & was first going suggest isolating that circuit by replacing those metal receptacle box’s w/ plastic box’s or some other material that’s not conductive, but that would all be for nothing once we plugged in the grinder & placed it on the table. But like you said, we took care of that by simply not attaching the ground wire. But if you really think about it, it wouldn’t matter if you plugged the grinder into the receptacle mounted on the table or in the wall anywhere in your shop for that matter over loading the ground wire & we are all guilty of that! So we might be “over engineering” this topic…? But it was fun anyway……

    I believe your correct on that last question you asked, but let me think about it today (I need to go out in the field for a little bit anyway…) & I’ll also refer to the code book as well, because again, I’m NOT an electrician that does this stuff everyday. & I want to make sure I tell you correctly. Plus, I’m going to have to break out a calculator, again your killing me Chad!!! Also starting to question you being not “electrically inclined” like you so claim…..? lol talk to you later, rodney
    Last edited by handirod; 02-06-2008 at 03:06 PM.

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