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  1. #1

    Default Stainless repair on sailboat (underwater)

    Hiya,
    First post here. Just got my Miller mig after 20 years of waiting, and I've got to repair my little darlin'. Thought I'd ask here about it.

    So, the bottom shackle on my rudder is apparently weathered and busted apart. I don't have the money to buy new parts, so I'm gonna weld her up myself. I'll be welding stainless, and as soon as I'm done with it she's going back in the water. What kind of gas/wire combo should I use in order to retain the best possible corrosion qualities for salt water immersion?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Delmont, PA
    Posts
    290

    Default

    Hey pucket,
    You really need to describe, with pics, the part to get good repair suggestions.

    1) What is the power output of your welder?

    2) What is the thickness of the repair part.....solid or hollow?

    3) Is it steel or a casting?

    Your weld area has to be clean & bare. Beveling if necessary to insure a good bond & strength. Wire could be 309/309L or 312 or possibly 316 for optimum corrosion resistance. Gas mix would probably work well with Ar/CO2 not more than 5% CO2. I use 98/2 generally with superb results. Member SundownIII has a lot of experience with boats & marine welding & I'm sure he will offer your best options for success..... give us as much info as possible.

    Denny
    * Complete welding, machine, & fab shop *
    * Mobile unit *
    * Finally retired *
    ____________________________________________

    * A man's word is his honor..... without honor, there is nothing. *
    * Words are like bullets..... once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back. *
    * I have no reservation to kill nor hesitation to die for the U.S. Constitution & the American Flag. *
    * Age is a state of mind..... at my age, you cannot fathom what is in my mind. *

  3. #3

    Default

    Aargh. I won't know the exact nature of the repair until I pull her out of the water. And, unfortunately, I will have a limited amount of time to have the proper materials available and do the repair. Can't afford dry storage for more than a day or so. I apologize for being vague, but that's all I've got.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    phoenix
    Posts
    5

    Default

    I do not think Yorkie caught that you were welding stainless, you need a trimix gas, helium, argon, co2. Other than that I cant tell you to much without knowing thickness and all of that.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Lodi, CA
    Posts
    1,257

    Default

    I'm pretty sure yorkie caught the stainless thing, all the alloys he mentioned are stainless. The gas mixes he specified, are also commonly used for stainless.
    Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Delmont, PA
    Posts
    290

    Default

    Hey noboxus,
    You apparently did not follow the order of my response as to suggested procedure. Quote: "I do not think"....... correct, you did not think. Quote: "you need a trimix gas"...... that is incorrect. There are very few applications that a tri-mix is needed or required..... a waste of money. Also, SS can be forged or cast just as carbon steel. The OP's indication that he is "welding stainless", also did not clarify if the part he is going to weld is stainless, or he was going to use a SS filler for the repair w/SS wire, thus his comment of "welding stainless" was not entirely clear.

    To you & all others, especially the newbies/youngsters learning stainless, who really need to do some homework on gasses, here's the site that will enlighten you regarding gasses, fillers, & applications that are proven & work extremely well. The information from Ed Craig is from years of experience & the science of metal & metal fusion.

    Denny

    http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htm
    * Complete welding, machine, & fab shop *
    * Mobile unit *
    * Finally retired *
    ____________________________________________

    * A man's word is his honor..... without honor, there is nothing. *
    * Words are like bullets..... once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back. *
    * I have no reservation to kill nor hesitation to die for the U.S. Constitution & the American Flag. *
    * Age is a state of mind..... at my age, you cannot fathom what is in my mind. *

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Deltaville, VA
    Posts
    2,239

    Default

    I don't know how the OP expects anyone to help with the information he's provided.

    Shackle to me implies, most likely, a chain rudder stop. If that's the case, we're most likely talking cast.

    I can't envision a situation where it's likely to be cost effective to buy the necessary materials to do the repair, than it would be to buy a new stainless shackle. West Marine has them, in various sizes, starting at around $11.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    phoenix
    Posts
    5

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by JSFAB View Post
    I'm pretty sure yorkie caught the stainless thing, all the alloys he mentioned are stainless. The gas mixes he specified, are also commonly used for stainless.
    actually that gas combo is never used for stainless if you have any real background with stainless. 98% argon 2% O2 and trimix are the only gases to be used on stainless and you better be on top of your welding game if you go with 98/2. If he is new to welding stainless it is very smart to use trimix as it gives much better results and is more forgiving.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    phoenix
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yorkiepap View Post
    Hey noboxus,
    .

    To you & all others, especially the newbies/youngsters learning stainless, who really need to do some homework on gasses, here's the site that will enlighten you regarding gasses, fillers, & applications that are proven & work extremely well. The information from Ed Craig is from years of experience & the science of metal & metal fusion.

    Denny

    http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htm
    Unfortunately Denny that website is ran by someone very ignorant about welding and is sad for people such as yourself, which Iím guessing learned to weld by going to sites like this. You hope to learn the correct info and you are misled. I have been welding probably more years than you have been alive and have been a welding inspector for over 20 years so no newbie here.
    Not sure where you shop for gas but I would find a new place if you pay more for argon than you pay for trimix. Wasnít saying you didnít think, said you may not of caught it was stainless, never seen anyone weld stainless, cast or otherwise with argon/co2 so thought you may not have. my post is correct, which you can look at here....http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/mig_handbook.pdf
    page 12 shows the gases that are to be used for stainless, and any other reputable site you find if you search, that ACTUALLY has someone with welding knowledge, I am sure will have the same info.
    So my 2 cents is donít provide info if you really do not know what you are talking about and lead more people in the wrong direction as you have been.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Delmont, PA
    Posts
    290

    Default

    Hey ubnoxus,
    I can see you have taken my response as an insult.... it was not to be meant to be snide, callous, demeaning, or insulting. Your interpretation of a post is YOURS. You read & interpret in your manner & that is your justification for your response. Again, I did not say there was not a place for tri-mix or its' usage. My response to my usage of 98/2(Ar/CO2) w/SS was with cast iron welding & other repairs is documented here & other sites w/pics to enlighten others. My postings are from experience & years under the hood & I never give information that I do not have experience or knowledge.

    I find Ed Craigs' website to be quite informative whether you like it or not. I didn't say that his site is the absolute..... I simply indicated it has superb information & a basis for most applications.

    1) I'm 66.... been welding 47yrs w/SMAW, GTAW, GMAW, O/A, Plasma, & journeyman docs in machining(inc. CNC), tool & die, & production design. Now, that we have established experience levels, you need not have concerns where I learned & made a career in the welding arena. I also didn't indicate YOU are a newbie..... I posted Ed Craigs' site FOR the newbies/youngsters that will help them get a grasp on fillers/gasses...... nothing more, nothing less. Again, your interpretation of a response that it was directed towards you is not so.

    2) If you have been welding longer than I have been alive.... you would be in your "80's???? Am I correct? Quite a preposterous response since you know nothing about me, isn't it?

    3) There is quite a bit of information regarding welding cast iron w/MIG & 98/2 that I have used with 100% success. So, as you can see, hopefully, it is done by those who need to control the expansion/contraction of some castings to prevent/eliminate cracking. Again, I don't post any responses unless I can "show" the application & parameters that it was obtained. Even at my age & experience, I still learn & enjoy learning.

    ubnoxus: I come to several of the welding forums to help the youngsters/newbies learn & attempt to provide them with information to make them better weldors & give them encouragement. You can look at my postings & projects I have submitted & then you can make your own evaluation of the information/experience I give to help. You are entitled to your opinion. I am not going to get into a verbal battle with you or anyone else..... I don't play childish games bantering with others or start a flaming war. There is no reason to ruin a forum with mindless diatribe that doesn't help anything/anyone.

    Denny
    * Complete welding, machine, & fab shop *
    * Mobile unit *
    * Finally retired *
    ____________________________________________

    * A man's word is his honor..... without honor, there is nothing. *
    * Words are like bullets..... once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back. *
    * I have no reservation to kill nor hesitation to die for the U.S. Constitution & the American Flag. *
    * Age is a state of mind..... at my age, you cannot fathom what is in my mind. *

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