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Thread: Railing?

  1. #1
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    Default Railing?

    Not sure what the local codes may say, but I need to make some handrailing. Checked around and determined the height needs to be between 34-36 inches with 4" maximum open space between vertical rails. In this case the rails won't extend all the way to the flooring/deck height. How high off the deck can the bottom (horizontal) rail be?
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  2. #2
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    Forty two inch height on the level sections, thirty four inch height off of the nose of stairs. There can be no place where a four inch diameter sphere can pass through, no place. So no more than three and seven eighths off of the floor or between pickets etc and so on.

    If you do anything less you put yourself and others at extreme risk. If an accident occurs then you are liable. If a lawyer found this thread then it could be construed criminal negilence on your part and your insurance company would abandon you like a bad diaper.

    I've had clients that didn't want to meet code on stuff like pool gates or hand rails. As a last resort I've offered to do it their way if they would sign a notarized statement accepting all liability. I've never had a taker.

    The reason the code is so harsh is there have been accidents. Some of those accidents have been fatal. They are rare and usually tied to something really freaky happening. We as professionals should always do everything in a professional manner, including following code.
    Last edited by wroughtnharv; 07-11-2010 at 08:50 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Here are the specs you are looking for. I'll let you look them up...learn more that way.

    IBC 1009 for stairways
    IBC 1010 for ramps
    IBC 1012 for handrails
    IBC 1013 for non residential guards ( I have to use this one the most for handrails)

    Others to compare:


    IRC R311
    IRC R312

    You should get all your answers form those sections. Just Google the code number and you will get many sources. That's how I found all of them.
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  4. #4
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    Default

    I get with the building inspector and show him what I have. If needed make the changes he wants then there are no problems at the finale inspection. Start a relationship with them and they will give you good info and Codes that you need.
    Also this is the code that they go by here.
    http://www.arcways.com/pdfs/IRC2006.pdf
    Last edited by Rick C; 07-11-2010 at 09:00 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDA52 View Post
    Here are the specs you are looking for. I'll let you look them up...learn more that way.

    IBC 1009 for stairways
    IBC 1010 for ramps
    IBC 1012 for handrails
    IBC 1013 for non residential guards ( I have to use this one the most for handrails)

    Others to compare:


    IRC R311
    IRC R312

    You should get all your answers form those sections. Just Google the code number and you will get many sources. That's how I found all of them.
    If a lawyer found this thread then it could be construed criminal negilence on your part and your insurance company would abandon you like a bad diaper.

    I don't believe that by asking a question it could be construed as negligence. Constructing them out of code however would be.



    I did look it up before posting the question, one source was an OSHA page: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ons&p_id=24960
    Another on stair codes: http://www.westfiremfg.com/html/stair_codes.html
    And finally, this one: http://www.safetyis.us/stairs.htm

    None of them state the 42 inches you refer to. Where am I going wrong?
    Last edited by nocheepgas; 07-12-2010 at 06:02 PM.
    Miller Syncrowave 200
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  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nocheepgas View Post

    If a lawyer found this thread then it could be construed criminal negilence on your part and your insurance company would abandon you like a bad diaper.

    I don't believe that by asking a question it could be construed as negligence. Constructing them out of code however would be.

    Correct. What I meant was you wouldn't be able to claim ignorance if there was a record of a search for information and you constructed them out of code.



    I did look it up before posting the question, one source was an OSHA page: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ons&p_id=24960
    Another on stair codes: http://www.westfiremfg.com/html/stair_codes.html
    And finally, this one: http://www.safetyis.us/stairs.htm

    None of them state the 42 inches you refer to. Where am I going wrong?
    IBC 2000 Guards not less than 42 inches with Exception: For Group R-3, and within individual dwelling units in R-2, whose top rail also serves as handrail shall have a height not less than 34 inches and not more than 38 inches.

    The way I read that is 42 inches unless it's a handrail like on a ramp or stairs, then it's not less than 34 nor more than thirty eight measured from the nose of a tread if it's stairs.

    Most of the handrails we build and install on level surfaces are referrred to as guard rails and not hand rails. We had a problem with one when we installed and then they put in a floor that took up an inch of height. We had to go back and put it up to forty two because the forty one failed.

    Make sure you pay attention also to the grip dimensions too. You'll get a red tag for a hand rail that's too small or too large for a normal grip.

    The clients will take the attitude that it's mine and we don't have to worry about a lot of the time. They're not the one hanging their butt out the window if anything goes wrong, you are.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nocheepgas View Post

    If a lawyer found this thread then it could be construed criminal negilence on your part and your insurance company would abandon you like a bad diaper.

    I don't believe that by asking a question it could be construed as negligence. Constructing them out of code however would be.



    I did look it up before posting the question, one source was an OSHA page: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ons&p_id=24960
    Another on stair codes: http://www.westfiremfg.com/html/stair_codes.html
    And finally, this one: http://www.safetyis.us/stairs.htm

    None of them state the 42 inches you refer to. Where am I going wrong?
    Right there in the Westfire link you provided

    "509.2 Height The top of guardrails shall not be less than 42 inches (1067 mm) in height."
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  8. #8
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    No way could your search for the correct codes ever be construed as criminal negligence. That is completely asinine. Criminal negligence by definition means you are NOT trying to get teh correct info.

    OK, Guards are required over a specific height with a handrail at a different specific height...confusing enough? Remember, this is government speak. Universal height for all guards is 42" as per OSHA and other like them. Handrails must be at 36" to satisfy ADA. You must meld the two to be completely legal in some places. We meld them here when we have enough room. I recently did the rails at a RSC store. Had to meet OSHA, and ADA...which is exactly the same as city codes. The guards all had to be at 42" and the handrails on the stairs had to be at 36". We did have a clear egress of 48"+, so here is what we did. We set a 42" guard rail on the stairs and hung a 36" pipe handrail to the inside. Not to worry if its confusing, I have pics. BTW, They wanted the handrail on the ADA ramp as well as the stairs.

    The absolute BEST way if you are unsure how to do the newest codes...look at a brand new shopping center or industrial complex with guards and handrails and copy them. They had to pass inspections to get operational, so if they passed...you should also. These specs can have local twists to them that the code doesn't reflect, so by checking out the competition, you can catch them. Be sure to look at as many NEW railings as you can. That way, you will get the latest and greatest.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by DDA52; 07-12-2010 at 08:06 PM.
    Don


    '06 Trailblazer 302
    '06 12RC feeder
    Super S-32P feeder

    HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
    Esab Multimaster 260
    Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

  9. #9
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    Default

    Don


    '06 Trailblazer 302
    '06 12RC feeder
    Super S-32P feeder

    HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
    Esab Multimaster 260
    Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DDA52 View Post
    The absolute BEST way if you are unsure how to do the newest codes...look at a brand new shopping center or industrial complex with guards and handrails and copy them. .
    How then, do they get away with a top hand rail and a middle hand rail only?
    You could easily fit a small refrigerator between. much less a 4" ball. I've seen them on stairs, ramps, etc. Do the commercial standards differ that much from residential? It would seem that the commercial standards would be stricter.


    DDA52: I see from your photos you have both a handrail and a guardrail. Perhaps this is where I'm misinterpreting the code?
    Last edited by nocheepgas; 07-12-2010 at 09:01 PM.
    Miller Syncrowave 200
    Homemade Water Cooler
    130XP MIG
    Spectrum 375
    60 year old Logan Lathe
    Select Machine and Tool Mill
    More stuff than I can keep track of..

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