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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
    Posts
    304

    Default

    Since this thread seems to have taken the turn down radiant heat blvd, here's a question for the tank fab guys. Does anyone build a double walled, vacuum insulated tank system. Here's why I ask. This morning before I left for the job site, I boiled up some water on the stove and made up a thermos bottle of hot chocolate (the ONLY thing I like about winter...maybe it's an addiction...I should check into that). By 4:30 when I left, what was still in there was too hot to drink straight out of the bottle. All that with only a very small (1/2"?) void. Would it practical to build something like that to store hot water for days on end?

    SSS
    Bobcat 250, MM 210, Syncrowave 180, Spectrum 375
    Cat 242B Skid Steer, Challenger (Cat/Agco) MT275
    1 Thessalonians 4:11-12

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    air being an excellent insulation as heat doesn't transmit well threw a gas. double pained windows being of the same idea i suppose.
    what is the use of storing hot water for days on end ?? keeping it hot to use to heat the house at night would be good but then you lose heat into the house and it cools as you use it. so come morning you have to start heating again.
    Noisy Nova site has some good info on the idea.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
    Posts
    605

    Default

    Sorry Fun4now, I think youve got it mixed up.
    SSS's thermos full of lava is due to the fact that a vaccum does not allow heat to escape.

    Heat is essentially a particle that is vibrating at a specific level or "energy state". If you have a gas, be it O2, Argon, helium, Hydrogen etc etc, As soon as a "hot" particle hits one of those gas molecules, its going to transfer some or all of its energy to that particle. One particle will lose some heat while the other will gain it. Remember, you cannot create nor destroy energy, but you can make it change form.

    So, with all that crap in mind, a vacuum or a void has nothing to transfer the vibrations of heat.

    Skid Steers' idea of a double walled tank is a most excellent idea. If you can keep your water hotter longer , you are in fact saving energy which in turn keeps dollars in your wallet.

    Skid Steers' double tank would lose heat too over time but only at the points where the inner tank is connected to the outer one. If you can build two tanks independant of each other and suspend one inside the other then vacuum the space in between the two, the inner tank full of water or what ever, should in theory stay hot for a very very long time.

    consider heat to be the same as sound. Sound will pass through some matter very well and not so well through others.

    on the top of the list concrete and water. Both hold heat fairly well and both transfer sound wave really well too.

    Anyway theres todays stupid science lesson.
    Will it weld? I loooove electricity!

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  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    yep i get it, vibrating molicules. true a vacume is better than air but air is better then a solid as the molicules are farther apart so they dont vibrate togather as easily.
    i supose a vacume around a hot water heater would be a great idea for saving $$. mine is gas and as such uses way more than is needed. been planing to go to electric so i can turn it off when not in use or atleast add some better insilation around it. it being gas i'm a bit concerned about what i can put around it. it also has to be vented to the outside both above and below the unit, this is letting a lot of cold in. truth of it is trailors were never the best option in colder climates, well not the older ones anyway.
    well the wife changed my plans when she got home, no big suprise there LOL. so now i'm off to go look for a wind mill.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    near rochester NY
    Posts
    9,881

    Default

    yep i get it, vibrating molecules. true a vacuum is better than air but air is better then a solid as the molecules are farther apart so they don't vibrate together as easily.
    i suppose a vacuum around a hot water heater would be a great idea for saving $$. mine is gas and as such uses way more than is needed. been planing to go to electric so i can turn it off when not in use or at least add some better insulation around it. it being gas i'm a bit concerned about what i can put around it. it also has to be vented to the outside both above and below the unit, this is letting a lot of cold in. truth of it is trailers were never the best option in colder climates, well not the older ones anyway.
    well the wife changed my plans when she got home, no big surprise there LOL. so now i'm off to go look for a wind mill.
    thanks for the help
    ......or..........
    hope i helped

    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. james@newyorkmetalart.com
    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
    JAMES

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1

    Default anyone make a wind generator ??

    Building a wind generator is both exciting and frustrating at times. It pays to have the information you need from someone who has actually built a few machines. We have designed a small wind generator capable of 100 watts in a 30mph wind. It is not a machine that is designed to power your house, although that is possible. Instead, it is designer to get your feet wet with the complexities and systems involved with wind power. Its not as complicated as some folks will have you believe, and the Chispito Wind Generator will help prove that point.

    Since the first prototype, we have come quite a way with this design. We have built lots of different models and configurations. We feel this configuration is the best to meet the goals of this design. At one point, we were offering kits for Chispito, and we sold nearly 150 of these kits world-wide. These kits were made by us in our garage in West Texas. All of the power to make these kits came from three Chispito Wind generators and one 100 watt solar panel. So, don't let anyone tell you it can't produce useful power. We are no longer offering the kits, but we are offering the information that will help you build a dependable machine.


  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    110

    Default

    I built a system using a fireplace to heat water. It had two or three different zones. Another thing I did was to strip my electrical water tank down and wrap a 50 foot coil of copper around it. The tank was then insulated with 6 inches of fiberglass insulation and enclosed with plywood. Careful to not overheat the controls! The circulation was controlled with an aquastat that was mounted in the pipe just outside of the fireplace. I left a little hole in a brick mortar joint so I could stick a screwdriver in to adjust the trigger temperature. When the water temperature reached my set point of 80 degrees F, the aquastat would turn on the circulation pump. It would then run until the water temperature would drop back down to 80 degrees which can be good or bad. There were some balancing valves between the zones so the amount of hot water to each zone could be adjusted.
    In the end the whole thing was not worth it. It was hard to control the beast. I had more valves than the boiler room on an aircraft carrier. In addition there was a temperature and pressure relief valve so if the water got too hot it would just dump outside without blowing the place up. Since water could get dumped, I had a valve that added water automatically if the system pressure dropped.
    The biggest drawback was the fireplace itself. As a fire dies down, a fireplace is just a big hole to the outside. With the still warm chimney it then pulls the room heat out even with a glass door in front. A boiler turns on and off. Itís a little harder to shut off a fireplace when the house gets up to temperature.
    Lol, the biggest positive was I did a presentation on the system at a local college and got a standing ovation.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Southern NH
    Posts
    233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SignWave View Post
    Skid Steers' double tank would lose heat too over time but only at the points where the inner tank is connected to the outer one. If you can build two tanks independant of each other and suspend one inside the other then vacuum the space in between the two, the inner tank full of water or what ever, should in theory stay hot for a very very long time.
    one of the reasons (besides the obvious corrosion resistance) they make those vacuum sealed thermos bottles out of SS is because SS is a pretty bad conductor of heat. the ideal material for your two tanks would be SS. got any spare $$$$ ?
    miller dynasty 350
    miller spectrum 1000

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,949

    Default "Wind Generator"

    I'll have to make a BIG batch of my famous Arizona Chili!

    Definitely generate some wind!

    Dave
    "Bonne journe'e mes amis"

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Gulfport, Florida
    Posts
    440

    Thumbs up Flammable Gas

    Quote Originally Posted by davedarragh View Post
    I'll have to make a BIG batch of my famous Arizona Chili!

    Definitely generate some wind!

    Dave
    Save it for torch fuel in a double wall tank. Don't forget the static straps.

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