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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    dallas,tx
    Posts
    207

    Default Working with AR400 steel

    One of the items I build sees use on asphalt or concrete drives. I have been using A36 CR plate 1/4" which on some surfaces ends up wearing pretty quick. I am looking for alternatives, one being making the skids replaceble/bolt on, which increases fabrication time, hardware costs etc. 2nd option is use thicker plate but this would only increase the life span and be more of a band-aid. I also ship these UPS so thicker plate would increase my shipping costs. I found AR400 and it seems ideal for my application. My questions are:

    Being hardened, can it be formed 45deg?

    Is it hardened throughout or just on the outside and once that is gone, I'm in the same boat?

    Weldability with ERS70S6 wire, 75/25 gas?

    Thanks in advance for any useful replies, I attached a picture of the completed product, the item in question is the 3 skids

    Scott
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,876

    Default

    No experience with it just a couple links from my Bookmarks folder

    http://www.thefabricator.com/article...cking-the-case

    http://www.mcneilus.com/Specificatio...ts/P.59,60.htm

    scroll down there is a section on Cold Forming- looks like a 45˚ bend would not be a problem.
    Ed Conley
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Lodi, CA
    Posts
    1,280

    Default

    AR400 is formable, to some extent. Too tight of a radius bend will tend to crack it on the outside of the radius, though. Experiment with larger bottom dies, which would also probably require more metal on the part sticking up on your skids (so it can bridge the larger die). Just being a quarter inch, and only a 45, may be possible with what you have now.

    Generally, welding AR it's recommended you preheat. I've usually welded without preheat, but always either with a dualshield wire or hard wire in spray mode, lots of amps and lots of heat. Not sure what would work in this application, maybe preheat to 400 or so, then shortarc with 75/25? Doing a few trial pieces, using different parameters and methods, then destructive testing with a big hammer may be prudent before shipping these out.

    Note, also, there are steels out there with the same hardness, but much more workability, and much better weldability. A good steel service center may be able to help you here.

    What are they dragging these across, that wears them out so fast? Concrete???? I only ask, maybe a lower AR would work fine for you, you only have to be harder than the other surface. Even a AR235 (if it still exists) is quite a bit harder than MS. Or maybe SS, while it's not necessarily any harder than what you are using now, against certain surfaces it does wear quite a bit better.

    Another possibility I can think of, weld a square plate to the bottom, four holes. Skid with four matching holes, drilled and tapped. Bolt down thru the top, with exact length bolts. Skids are now replaceable by the end-user, and you have automatic future business, selling parts and bolts. This is assuming, of course, you can make parts precise and repeatable enough, so they will fit.

    Just throwing out a few ideas to consider.
    Obviously, I'm just a hack-artist, you shouldn't be listening to anything I say .....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Houston, Tx.
    Posts
    378

    Default

    The skids look fairly small. It might be possible to make them out of standard materials, then hardface them. There are different types of hardface rod, some better suited to impact resistance and some for abrasion resistance. It is common on construction equipment to hardface parts of buckets, etc. that drag across concrete all of the time. Overlap the toe of each bead into the crown of the next one and grind or machine flat when done. There is hardface wire avaliable if you don't have a machine capable of stick welding. If you don't mind farming a few parts out, there is a flame spray transfer process that can put a wear layer on these without the need for final machining or grinding. Just a couple of thoughts, hope you find a workable solution.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    arkansas
    Posts
    781

    Default

    ive not ever tried to weld hard plate with mig process..... i have been building receiver chutes for sand conveyors for the past 3 days. 1/4 ar-400, i weld that with 5/32 8018 rods at 190 amps, after a preheat to about 200 degrees. it is pretty tough to form it, if you make a tight bend, it will crack... so, make more breaks, but less angle until the desired angle is achieved... another alternative might be t-1, but best of luck getting that stuff to bend at all.

    why not plate that "flat" part of the skids with wear plate (high manganese content) so that the wear is on the plate, but the rounds and forms of the skids built out of 572 gr 50?
    welder_one

    nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    arkansas
    Posts
    781

    Default

    i get it now, its a "sled" that you push or pull, and if used outside, it would be drug on asphalt, concrete or the likes......

    make a "wear" pad out of ar or t-1 plate and either make it bolted on or welded.... simple steel wont hold up to that type of wear (especially if there is alot of weight stacked on)
    welder_one

    nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
    www.sicfabrications.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Williams Lake, British Columbia
    Posts
    722

    Default

    I build a lot of reclaimer buckets here for a chip power plant, I used 1/4" AR 400 and a simple preheat "" 200 degree seems right" and use Air liquid t-91 wire with 75 argon/ 25 co2.

  8. #8

    Default Manganese

    Depending on what is causing the wear. You may try using manganese plate. Manganese actually gets harder with impact. It can be formed 45 degrees without much trouble. You will need to weld it with stainless rod.

    It is very difficult to drill though so you will need to cut your holes with a plasma or oxy-fuel torch.

    Not to be confused with magnesium!!!

    Scott
    Fab Manager
    Welders360

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Troy, OH near Dayton
    Posts
    43

    Default

    You can use AR400, and bending a lip on it as shown in the photos should be possible.

    But I think it might be less expensive to weld a few beads of hardfacing on the bottom of your existing pads. You don't need to coat the entire bottom surface with hardfacing. A waffle or grid pattern with 1-1.5" spacing would give you plenty of bearing surface and keep the A36 clear of the concrete and asphalt.

    That hardfacing can be renewed easily, which might bring some happy customers back to you for maintenance work...

    Quote Originally Posted by STRENGTH AND POWER View Post
    One of the items I build sees use on asphalt or concrete drives. I have been using A36 CR plate 1/4" which on some surfaces ends up wearing pretty quick. I am looking for alternatives, one being making the skids replaceble/bolt on, which increases fabrication time, hardware costs etc. 2nd option is use thicker plate but this would only increase the life span and be more of a band-aid. I also ship these UPS so thicker plate would increase my shipping costs. I found AR400 and it seems ideal for my application. My questions are:

    Being hardened, can it be formed 45deg?

    Is it hardened throughout or just on the outside and once that is gone, I'm in the same boat?

    Weldability with ERS70S6 wire, 75/25 gas?

    Thanks in advance for any useful replies, I attached a picture of the completed product, the item in question is the 3 skids

    Scott
    Benson's Mobile Welding & Fabrication
    www.bensonmobilewelding.com
    Serving the Dayton, Cincinnati, and Columbus, OH metropolitan areas

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    dallas,tx
    Posts
    207

    Default

    After pricing things our and looking at competitor's products, I opted to stick with MS and have the fab shop who does the 45 deg bend punch a hole on each of the angled sections. They then formed me replacement skids with the ID of the replacement matching the OD of the original. 2 bolts hold it on and in theory the replacement skids will be backwards compatible with older units. All that will be needed would be a drill to drill the holes in the orginal. I am getting an econotig and may mess around with the hardfacing idea, even if my welds aren't pretty to begin with, my sins will be erased over time. Thanks to all who responded

    Scott
    Miller 350P
    Miller Econotig
    Milwaukee Dry saw
    Evolution Dry saw (for sale)
    Scotchman 350 cold saw
    7x12 bandsaw
    1910 ATW 14 x 72 lathe
    fridge full of adult beverages
    Sirius radio

    www.snpequipment.com
    callouses and burns a plenty

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