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Thread: MIG Questions

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Grande Prairie, Alberta Canada
    Posts
    729

    Default Way Off Topic....Thread is now Hi-jacked.

    I agree 100% with both you guys. My biggest issue with the weekend welder is, and always will be, that the individual does not receive the proper training to do a proper job.

    I welcome anyone to pick up a welding machine & try, it is a wonderful feeling to be able to take an idea from your head, and have the skills to create it with your hands.

    Notice I said "skills".... this means time & training. For the amateur that does not wish to enter the trade, I suggest evening classes at a Vocational or Technical School. At the very least, familiarize yourself with and experienced tradesman who can "Mentor" you and guide you in the correct precedures as you learn.

    This is where the manufacturers really drop the ball. Selling welding equipment at Home Depot,Wal-Mart, Canadian Tire, Harbour Freight, Princess Auto, etc etc gets the welders into the hands of the end user, but not instructing how to use the machines correctly.

    I personally, would like to see the manufacturers take some responsibility for this and possibly address it in a couple of different manners:

    1) Include a comprehensive, DVD based tutorial showing correct maintenance & set up procedures, common user problems, and basic welding procedures.

    2) Sponsor basic welding courses at the LWS that carry their products. This both ensures the end user is using the equipment correctly, and also builds up a repore between the end user and the LWS for future upgrades???

    Either of the above suggestions are a Win/Win in my book.

    Everyone that wants to weld, should be able to access the equipment and be able to weld. We as an industry, have to work harder to get the end user the correct information, so that they can follow correct procedures and make SAFE welds.

    I'm sure that there will be arguements over liability on the manufacturers part, but manufacturing, marketing, and selling low end units to entry level end users WITHOUT giving them any form of instruction, is just irresponsible, not to mention Dangerous.

    My rant is now over.

    Miller, the ball is in your court.....Time to step up to the plate & take a swing.

    Hey Batter, Batter,.......

    Later,
    Jason
    Last edited by Black Wolf; 12-09-2007 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    72

    Default

    If any manufacturer would do this, it would be Miller.

    Can you tell that I'm a fan?

    Do I get brownie points?
    XMT-300 with S-64 wire feeder.
    Lincoln HI-FREQ modified to run XMT.
    Esab PCM-875 plasma cutter.
    Miller Spoolmatic-1
    Miller PC-300 pulser
    Miller Optima pulser

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    173

    Default

    I hear and agree with a lot of what you say. BUT, you imply that because anyone can buy a welder then that is a bad thing...Somehow I miss the logic in your concept. Do any work around the house? So then are you a school trained_______________(fill in the blank). Matter of fact most of us on an everyday basis do things which many go to school to learn.

    Every work on a computer?

    Which came first, chicken or the egg. Welder or school for welding, computer repair or schools, auto mechs or schools.

    School: I have looked at lots of welding courses. Passed on all of them. 1) They want to teach me things I don't want to know or care about knowing. 2) At nearly 62 I just want to work with my MIG welder, not spend the next 4/5 months going to school to learn what...how to torch weld, how to stack gas bottles in a warehouse.

    What I want to know are the details, tricks of the trade as it applies to what I want to do, no more, no less.

    I am a retired engineer who after doing software and computers for 30 years wanted to pick up a welder, a plasma cutter and other assorted tools that will find in my garage, that I use to play with my Jeep.

    Safety...GIVE ME A FRIGGIN break. I paid a "professional, school trained welder $40 bucks to run a bead on a AC bracket on my car...a lot of money in 1978 and I took off and installed the part.

    I did not make it even a mile down the road when the weld broke and did several hundred dollars with of damage to my car. His claim was the "weld did not break". Yes he was right, it did not. However what I learned later on was no, it did not break, it did not STICK. He welded over the engine grease. I did not know from Adam back then, but I know now and he did not prep it in spite of me asking "don't cha need to clean off that grease? "No, the welding will just burn it off"

    Going to a welding school does NOT make you a good or a smart welder, a safe or wise welder. It does mean you were exposed to the information (maybe) and whether or not you know it and practice it today is at best questionable and at worst not likely.

    I hired a guy who was a grad of Harvard one time and that guy was as dumb as a mud fence. Had to let him go, he just lacked good sense. One of the few folks I ever had to get rid of due to a lack of ability to do the job and I had 175 + engineers working for me at one time.

    I use schooling as an indicator to tell me whether or not you have been exposed to the knowledge. But I don't and never have "hired degrees". I hire the man or woman based upon my gut feeling that they can do the job (I prefer NOT to hire computer science majors either), but that is just me.
    Last edited by SavageSunJeep; 12-09-2007 at 06:00 PM.
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.savagesun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
    10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Grande Prairie, Alberta Canada
    Posts
    729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSunJeep
    I hear and agree with a lot of what you say.* BUT, you imply that because anyone can buy a welder then that is a bad thing...

    No Don,

    The average Shmoe watching OCC and Biker Buildoff that figures he can buy an entry level welder from Home Depot and start welding up a race car, or suspension for a "Low Rider" is a BAD THING...That is where the focus of my comments are. Informing all the TV & Cyber welding experts so no-one gets hurt.


    School:* I have looked at lots of welding courses.* Passed on all of them.* 1)* They want to teach me things I don't want to know or care about knowing.* 2)* At nearly 62 I just want to work with my MIG welder, not spend the next 4/5 months going to school to learn what...how to torch weld.What I want to know are the details, tricks of the trade as it applies to what I want to do, no more, no less.

    The purpose of teaching you to Oxy/Acetylene weld is to give you hand to eye co-ordination, and puddle control, and also to allow you to see & understand what is happening within the puddle. All core concepts to understanding Arc Welding whether it be stick welding, wire feed welding, or Tig welding. I am very sorry that learning what you are doing so you do not kill somebody is so annoying to you.

    I am a retired engineer who after doing software and computers for 30 years wanted to pick up a welder, a plasma cutter and other assorted tools that will find in my garage, that I use to play with my Jeep.

    That is a good goal Don, and I wish that for you too. I just wish that you learn from someone to do it correctly.

    Going to a welding school does NOT make you a good or a smart welder, a safe or wise welder.* It does mean you were exposed to the information (maybe) and whether or not you know it and practice it today is at best questionable and at worst not likely.

    I agree with you here. Every trade has it's share of low end workers that lack the drive & pride to do every job with due care and attention. Your experience is unfortunate and not uncommon, but to colour ALL Professional Welders with the same brush is not only unfair, it shows a high level of ignorance on your part.

    I use schooling as an indicator to tell me whether or not you have been exposed to the knowledge.* But I don't and never have "hired degrees".* I hire the man or woman based upon my gut feeling that they can do the job.
    Don, there is nothing wrong with your selection criteria. I would suggest that you use it to find someone more experienced in welding than yourself that you trust to show you how to do things correctly and safely.

    Re-directing back to the end of my previous post....Manufacturers should take responsibility for this shortcoming and improper use of their equipment by either supplying a DVD based tutorial for the end user, OR sponsor courses at the LWS that carry their products.

    Everyone pushes welding equipment, no one pushes information or safety.

    Later,
    Jason
    Last edited by Black Wolf; 12-09-2007 at 07:17 PM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Wolf View Post
    I would suggest that you use it to find someone more experienced in welding than yourself that you trust to show you how to do things correctly and safely.

    Manufacturers should take responsibility for this shortcoming and improper use of their equipment by either supplying a DVD based tutorial for the end user, OR sponsor courses at the LWS that carry their products.

    Later,
    Jason
    That is why there are so many of us guys on these forums, to learn.

    Good idea, but I am sure there is some reason why they have not...
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.savagesun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
    10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    21

    Default Thank you

    Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I appreciate your input.

    To fill in one blank in my original posting, I am using .035 wire. The wire feeder (used with the Miller CP-302) is a Miller 22A (I'm almost sure); the wire feed speed is set at about 2 on the dial.

    And, finally, employing many of the tips found here, I did substantially better this weekend.

    Again, thank you all. And Happy Holidays!

    Jim

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southern Louisiana
    Posts
    421

    Default Stepping up

    Yes I admit to being a Miller Employee but please remember that my posts here are my opinion. They are not the opinion of Miller Electric or it's parent company Illinois Tool Works. Along with that I have been with Miller for less than a year now after being in the manufacturing industry for several years and attending college. All of that information is readily available on line. My decision to come work at Miller was heavily influenced by their dedication to the welder.

    I must take issue that manufacturers such as Miller haven't reached out to welders to help increase their ability or productivity. If you will look to the top of the screen at resources there are videos, booklets, books, calculators all designed to help us all as welders. It is the very concept at Miller to help welding improve that draws so many people there. They are interested in helping the user of their products and not just sell a machine.

    You can look at any trade show from hot rod shows to farm implement shows and there are welder manufacturers there to help, train and demonstrate. Not just Miller but Lincoln and ESAB do it also.

    As the need is identified realistically then the need is met, Miller started with one roadshow and now has two and is working hard to provide more exposure to this type of experience. If you were at the weld show in Chicago you know what I mean, they were both there and quite impressive. Those 2 trucks maintain an abusive schedule through out the year to get out and show people how to use the equipment, then they let you try it. They can't however force you to participate. Just like with the resources button above, the information is there, these companies employ dozens of weld engineers to help when you are stuck. Miller has even started producing DVDs on how to use their machines and that's not cheap. It does go to show their dedication to helping. They don't care if you weld at night in your garage or on aerospace projects when your stuck your stuck and they do things like these discussion boards to help out.

    I will not claim to know everything about welding, I learn new stuff everyday especially on these forums. There are alot of people out there that have done alot more than me and know so much more. I do know somethings and can find answers to other questions, thats what I do.

    My posts here are intended to help where they can and provide maybe a different point of view. My intention is to be respectful always and become better at what I do. If I have or do in the future disrespect anyone I am sorry for it and hope to have it brought to my attention.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Southern Louisiana
    Posts
    421

    Default Irish Welder

    Jim,
    I am glad to see you feel like you have improved. I am sorry about the direction of the thread as it went away from your question. I think you can see there are many points of view in welding and as you incorporate some of each you will find the right way for you to weld.

    Happy Holidays to you

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by diamondback View Post

    As the need is identified realistically then the need is met, Miller started with one roadshow and now has two and is working hard to provide more exposure to this type of experience.
    Thanks for the response.

    I see you are a "diamondback" just wonder if you are located out here in AZ?
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.savagesun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
    10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Posts
    173

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Wolf View Post

    Miller, the ball is in your court.....Time to step up to the plate & take a swing.

    Hey Batter, Batter,.......

    Later,
    Jason
    Jason,
    Just got my Hypertherm Plasma cutter yesterday and it came with a DVD showing you how to use, work with and safety measures...
    Don
    Scottsdale, AZ
    www.savagesun4x4.com

    MillerMatic 211 AS
    Hypertherm PowerMax30
    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
    Bernard 200 Amp Q Gun
    Milwaukee Band-saw/stand
    10 Angle Grinders 8, 4 1/2" -2, 7"
    DeWalt Chop Saw
    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
    12 Ton Shop Press
    Optrel Satellite Helmet
    Miller Elite Helmet

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