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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    miami
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    262

    Default pipe

    1. fusion king i have several of those same pipe benders. it all comes down to this, does the poster want an true arc or a piece of pipe bumped with a bender in a number of places to form the arc. yes this can be done. but you know that to get the arc correct you are going to have to space the pipe in equal increments and also apply pressure with equal force. very difficult to do. and there are thirtytwo pieces of pipe in all. by the way, i appreciate the way you presented your post.

    2. if the other poster thinks that the math is unnecessary he might want to reconsider. if you can't handle some simple linear equations and right triangle trig you better be a god****ed good welder. the circle is a marvel, once you understand it's properties. it is a wonder it was not worshiped at some time.

    3. it only took a few minutes to do the development of this corral because i took the time early in life to study some math and take courses in what is called descriptive geometry; the fact that i could establish the elevation from chord to arc quickly allowed me to determine the best way to fabricate other than rolling (which is, by far, the best way to handle this.) once i knew that height (and i am sketching on a napkin) i knew from experience that the item could be cold formed.

    4. show dog appears to be the only one who has actually used a rosebud to do this work and he is right, bringing the material up to transformation temp will make it easier to bend and that is good if that is the only way, and most efficient way to do it. but does he want to bump up to a 120 in radius 32 pieces of schedule forty pipe. i don't think so, and remember it has to be kept flat.

    4. now, cutting a template say, to a radius of 108" for starters out of some stacked 2 x 10's and in addition putting something on them that would project and keep the pipe in place as it was being formed is a simple and cheap way to go. using expansion bolts would allow the guy to remove the wood and trim the radius when and if necessary. the pipe can be pinned on one end, the other end connected to a 15' come along. you will have to play with this a little but once it is dialed in you make a mark at the point where you will hit the radius after spring back. and then you do it 31 more times. i suggested a floor because i'm pretty sure this guy does not have the table setup that was suggested by show dog, which would work but it would have to be fastened to the floor (the table/s)

    also, something i picked up on pretty quickly here is the fact that he had his material rolled by some guy and claims he is too busy/expensive to do any more. what i think happened is he did not calculate the circumference correctly (pi x Dia, at the mean dia.) and told the guy to roll the pipe. it would obviously take at least three pieces of sch. 40 in 21 foot lengths to do this correctly. if you read his post you will see his error. i am thinking there was disagreement between him and the guy that did the rolling. 35 years at this and you tend to see things with a little more clarity.

    there are obviously some very talented people on this board; and there are quite a few know it alls, that don't know too much. i started as a welder and i'm actually a good welder but my main thing has been metal fabrication, precision sheet metal, industrial sheet metal, miscellaneous metals, light and heavy structural, marine fabrication and more. but i also recognize the limits of my abilities and frankly if i need something welded really well; i just hire a guy end of story. i don't have all the answers but in the metals trade i have a lot of them.

    also, sailor man, i like the setup you descibed and i believe it could be utilized in this instance also. great story.

    the whole point here is why throw out suggestions to someone if you don't even know what you are talking about. then again they always are the ones that have all the answers, god knows i have hired and worked with enough of them.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East Tennessee
    Posts
    614

    Default

    Well said fdcmiami . Sounds like you've done this before. I've got somewhat a pic in my head of what your describing just wish I could see it more clearly.
    Last edited by Showdog75; 01-01-2010 at 05:40 PM.
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  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    miami
    Posts
    262

    Default pipe

    i don't take pictures of work but this set of gates i did about twelve years ago are nearby so i took a couple of pictures only to demonstrate the formation of an arc. granted this is 1/8 by 1 by 3 T6 aluminum rolled the hard way; any of the aluminum guys will tell you how unforgiving T6 can be if you don't get it right the first couple of times.i formed the arc exactly the way i described in my earlier posts. cold, the ring that is surrounding the image was rolled around a circular plywood form 24 in in dia. using 6063 T0.

    the gate is app 14 feet wide and 15 feet tall, all aluminum. i had a foundry cast the spears on the top.

    i have done a ton of it. 6' roll formers, press brakes up to 12' 300 tons. all kinds of material.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East Tennessee
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    Nice work.
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  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fdcmiami View Post
    also, something i picked up on pretty quickly here is the fact that he had his material rolled by some guy and claims he is too busy/expensive to do any more. what i think happened is he did not calculate the circumference correctly (pi x Dia, at the mean dia.) and told the guy to roll the pipe. it would obviously take at least three pieces of sch. 40 in 21 foot lengths to do this correctly. if you read his post you will see his error. i am thinking there was disagreement between him and the guy that did the rolling. 35 years at this and you tend to see things with a little more clarity.
    I six pieces I had rolled were 31' long. He rolled them in to half circles of about 20' in diameter. Even though he has a pretty high dollar roller, his setup for working long pieces wasn't very good and the shop was so small and cluttered, that the process was a mess. The six pieces ended up not being very uniform. But there seems to be enough spring in the pipe that with some tweaking, I can make it work.

    This guy also runs another business that is doing much better than his gate buiding business, so I was not a prioriety for him. No dissagreement or error in my math. I just want to be able to do my own bending.
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  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    347

    Default

    Hey Harv, I like your ideas. I think I may try the method you used on your web site with the flat bar. Only, I'm going to use my log splitter ram instead of a hammer and elbow grease. My elbow doesn't have that much grease in it.

    I have a forty ton press that can bend an arc in some some 2 1/2" solid round bar I have laying around. I'll use that for the backbone of my jig. I'll make the radius slightly tighter than I need to allow for some spring back. I'll use your idea of a radius nose for the hydraulic ram - again, with a slightly tighter radius than required so I can bend it just past the arc for spring back.

    If I were to use the chain method, I'm not sure I have chains strong enough. A plus to the other method is that can form the radius all the way up to the end of the pipe and reduce the waste.

    Now, if we can all just get along on this board...
    Last edited by garybdavis; 01-01-2010 at 07:20 PM.
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  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fdcmiami View Post
    4. show dog appears to be the only one who has actually used a rosebud to do this work and he is right, bringing the material up to transformation temp will make it easier to bend and that is good if that is the only way, and most efficient way to do it. but does he want to bump up to a 120 in radius 32 pieces of schedule forty pipe. i don't think so, and remember it has to be kept flat.
    I have used heat to form pipe when absolutely nothing else was available. I can say that it goes through gas in a hurry... and that ain't cheap!
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  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Grande Prairie, Alberta Canada
    Posts
    729

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fdcmiami View Post
    neither of you know what you are talking about.
    2. if the other poster thinks that the math is unnecessary he might want to reconsider. if you can't handle some simple linear equations and right triangle trig you better be a god****ed good welder.....

    ****

    4. show dog appears to be the only one who has actually used a rosebud to do this work and he is right.....
    Wow.... Your arrogance is only bested by your ignorance...

    We already have a number of Holier Than Thou Know-It-Alls on this board, so why not at least ONE more?

    By your posts, I would have to guess that you have offended thousands of competent tradespeople that have more actual hand-on abilities than yourself.

    Here is a concept from the Real World:

    I would love to see you walk on to a Pipeline Right of Way and tell the sideboom operator bending an arc in a pipe that he "has no idea what he is talking about", and should do it the way you scratched it out on a napkin instead.....

    I have no doubt that you have an education, and that you are knowledgable in this area... But your head is getting in the way of your hands. This project is NOT HARD to do...and you are making way more complicated than it needs to be.

    Go ahead - pound on that keyboard, and try to blow sunshine up your own backside if that gets your rocks off.... It matters little to me.

    You may wish to consider removing that last picture in your post... This is a welding forum after all, and I can see why you need to hire someone ELSE to do the welding.
    Later,
    Jason

    Professional Spark Generator by Trade.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    miami
    Posts
    262

    Default pipe

    well then maybe the sideboom operator should have responded instead of you.

    another "reggie in wolf's clothing."

    lol

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by garybdavis View Post
    Hey Harv, I like your ideas. I think I may try the method you used on your web site with the flat bar. Only, I'm going to use my log splitter ram instead of a hammer and elbow grease. My elbow doesn't have that much grease in it.

    I have a forty ton press that can bend an arc in some some 2 1/2" solid round bar I have laying around. I'll use that for the backbone of my jig. I'll make the radius slightly tighter than I need to allow for some spring back. I'll use your idea of a radius nose for the hydraulic ram - again, with a slightly tighter radius than required so I can bend it just past the arc for spring back.

    If I were to use the chain method, I'm not sure I have chains strong enough. A plus to the other method is that can form the radius all the way up to the end of the pipe and reduce the waste.

    Now, if we can all just get along on this board...
    Gary fence tubing, .154 wall (absolute minimum for schedule forty classification I understand) is pretty reasonable right now. It will bend easier and have a lot less spring back than oil field tubing. Keep in mind the arc gives your material a lot more strength, more than enough to make up the difference oil field pipe offers under these circumstances.

    MS told me you were looking for my number. Give me a call, I've got a question about something totally unrelated to ask you.

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