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  1. #11

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    Remember in welding school textbooks, the drawing of the spoked steel wheel with a broken spoke, and they showed you the places to heat the wheel before you welded the break? I always try to envision how to reduce stresses that might accumulate in a repaired crack or break, pre-heat where it seems useful, stop-drill as you do, and maybe make short, sequenced welds. Other parts of the world call this "practical engineering," though at least in my case it probably involves some dumb luck as well.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Oswego IL
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    639

    Default Stress...

    Trailers, frames normally crack due to the stress or vibration of road travel. First be sure the axles are sprung correctly, that the spring move in the hangers (if they are froozen it will keep cracking). Shocks are installed.... I normally v the cracks out and fish plate the crack. Normally the metal is so fatigued that welding the crack only pushes the crack to the side of the weld.
    Kevin
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcstott View Post
    6011 is particularly known to not be very ductile.
    .

    Lincolns 6011 has as good or just a bit better elongation percentages than their 7018's. So I have to ask, "known" by who?

    JTMcC.
    Some days you eat the bear. And some days the bear eats you.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    872

    Default

    Performance of some name brands notwithstanding...

    Typical values of elongation are in the 30% ballpark for most 7018 and 6010/11 rods, so neither one really pulls ahead on that measure of ductility.

    However, Charpy V-notch values in the mid 30's (ft-lb) are common for 6010/11 while CVN's in the mid 60's are common for 7018.

    7018's win big in that measure. Not by a few percent, but by almost double.

    So it would probably be more precise to say that the 6010/11 weld deposit will be more brittle than the 7018 weld deposit.

    Is ductile the opposite of brittle? It depends on which metric you are using and the context in which you are using it.

    80% of failures are from 20% of causes
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  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delhi, Ontario:
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    1,970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodybagger View Post
    Performance of some name brands notwithstanding...

    Typical values of elongation are in the 30% ballpark for most 7018 and 6010/11 rods, so neither one really pulls ahead on that measure of ductility.

    However, Charpy V-notch values in the mid 30's (ft-lb) are common for 6010/11 while CVN's in the mid 60's are common for 7018.

    7018's win big in that measure. Not by a few percent, but by almost double.

    So it would probably be more precise to say that the 6010/11 weld deposit will be more brittle than the 7018 weld deposit.

    Is ductile the opposite of brittle? It depends on which metric you are using and the context in which you are using it.
    Bodybagger;
    Hi; Probably Not related to the OP's question, but how does
    SS. - 308L compare to the above Equation on ductility & CVN's ?

    ........... Norm

    Sunrise Outside My Shop In Delhi, Ontario

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  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lebanon IL
    Posts
    8

    Default question

    hey tryagn5....what do mean by fish plate the cracks??? never heard this term before

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Delhi, Ontario:
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    1,970

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seven 13 View Post
    hey tryagn5....what do mean by fish plate the cracks??? never heard this term before
    Hello;

    I havn't heard the term in some time, but I think he means to weld a plate Over the welded-up crack !
    Vee it out weld it , grind the weld flush then weld a plate Over the Area on One or Both sides !

    ............ Norm

    Sunrise Outside My Shop In Delhi, Ontario

    - Arcair- K 4000 CAC.

    - LN-25 Wire Feeder

    - Lincoln Ranger 8- Engine Drive- CC\CV:



    - Lincoln Power Mig 180C
    - Spoolgun.
    - DeWalt Chop Saw .
    - DeWalt Compressor - 13cfm, @ 100 psi.

    www.normsmobilewelding.blogspot.com

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,508

    Default

    I personally donít believe in fish plating! Never seen it speced on anything Iíve built. But then again I donít work on car frames, here is a nice read on chassis repair.

    Another thought on fish plating, Iíve welded gussets in beams until the cows came home, but never ever fish plated a beam splice. Also never seen a pipe weldor fish plate a weld on a pipe either!

    http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa..._COP_sec_2.pdf
    Caution!
    These are "my" views based only on ďmyĒ experiences in ďmyĒ little bitty world.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Oswego IL
    Posts
    639

    Default Equipment...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonora Iron View Post
    I personally donít believe in fish plating! Never seen it speced on anything Iíve built. But then again I donít work on car frames, here is a nice read on chassis repair.

    Another thought on fish plating, Iíve welded gussets in beams until the cows came home, but never ever fish plated a beam splice. Also never seen a pipe weldor fish plate a weld on a pipe either!

    http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa..._COP_sec_2.pdf
    Sonora-
    Im not sure your field of welding but once you get into truck frames, or machinery fish plating is very common, and required! Normally the reason frames fail is due to metal fatigue, repairing a crack only pushes the crack to the outside of the weld. Cutting large sections of frames out, is not only not partical, but heavily frowned upon. Many times I will use a fishplate to isolate a crossmemeber previously welded to the frame. Or use it to strengthen a boom in a weak are...Ie cylinder mount, or pivot. The trick to any fishplate is placement of the welds, as with plug welding the fishplate...Ie cutting small circles from the plate, then welding the fishplate to the baseplate through the circles. The basic idea is to keep the fishplate from flexing away from the base plate.
    Kevin
    XMT 304
    Miller Spectrum 625
    Miller 30a spool gun
    S22a
    Miller Legend 302
    Lincoln LN25
    Ford f450 Maintainer Srv Truck

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Alberta Red Deer
    Posts
    373

    Default

    all the frame repairs and splices i have ever done are engineered with fish plates but instead of plug welds they are drilled and bolted ( can also be welded but most of the time bolted) my drawing is crappy but give you an idea what a fish plate can look like.
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