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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    44

    Default Witch gas is better for Pulse Mig Mode (steel)

    At LWS the man said that I should use C8 instead of C10 Pulse Mode on steel. All he said it worked better. That is all I could get out of him. I like to know what the diffrence be tween the two gasses are. Other than 2 percent diffrence in Co2. Witch one performs better. On the weld chart it states C10.
    Any help on this question.
    Thank you
    Last edited by Rick C; 11-11-2009 at 08:56 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Gases for pulsed mode

    There are many different gas mixes that can be used for pulsed mode. Assuming that you are welding steel, gases must contain at least 80% Argon to get the wire into the spray mode well.

    You can practice with this without equipment that is too specialized by raising the wire feed speed and voltage (using a gas mix with at least 80% argon). Most of use have gotten used to the short circuit transfer mode and are accustomed to that "frying bacon" sound. As you increase the wire feed speed and voltage you will start to see the arc go from short circuit to spray transfer mode. This threashold depends on wire size, so to test you may want to use a small wire size like .030 or .035. As you get into the spray mode well, the transfer process will go to a directed stream of small molten droplets of metal. That frying bacon sound will go away, and the arc will be very hot with little or no spatter.

    You can test different gases using this method to see what runs the best if you have time. The best gas for spray welding will also work well for pulsed spray welding.

    I would recommend that you try some argon CO2 mixes like 92% argon /8 CO2 and maybe some argon oxygen mixes to see what is best. 98% argon 2% oxygen is a good mix that would work well too.

    Keep in mind that the pulsed spray process is designed to give more controllability to the spray process. The spray process will give very deep penetration and very fast travel speed, but it only works well for flat or horizontal fillet welds (standard tee joints). The pulsed spray process pulses from short circuit to spray so that you tune in the process for specific applications.

    Maybe this will help.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Wooster, OH
    Posts
    18

    Default

    It would be very difficult to notice a difference between the two. CO2 is cheaper than Argon, so the more Argon you get the more you pay. If all you are doing is short arc (frying bacon sound) then use 75/25 mix, it will be easier on your wallet.

    Some distributors carry 90-10 mixes and some carry 92-8, maybe someone that is in the gas business will answer. Hopefully it's a legitiment reason other than they can charge 2% more for the extra Argon in it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    southern California
    Posts
    1,783

    Default

    Which machine are you referring to?

    The Millermatic 350P's pulse program is designed to work best on 90/10 for mild steel with solid wire. Miller tech support told me that when they tested the 350P, that is the gas it worked best on. They said they're second choice is 95/5.

    If you're talking about the Optima pulser, it is designed to run on 95/5 for mild steel with solid wire.

    I believe the Invision and XMT 350 MPa machines are also designed to run on 95/5 for mild steel with solid wire, but you would have to check the manuals to be sure.
    Millermatic350P/Python, MillermaticReach/Q300
    Millermatic175
    MillermaticPassport/Q300
    HTP MIG200
    PowCon 300SM, MK Cobramatic
    ThermalArc 185ACDC, Dynaflux Tig'r, CK-20
    DialarcHF, Radiator-1
    Hypertherm PowerMax 380
    Purox oxy/ace
    Jackson EQC
    -F350 CrewCab 4x4
    -LoadNGo utility bed
    -Bobcat 250NT
    -PassportPlus/Q300
    -XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic15A
    -Suitcase8RC/Q400
    -Suitcase12RC/Q300
    -Smith oxy/propane
    -Jackson EQC

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    2,817

    Default

    Since weldertim mentioned it I'll post up a cool video I found

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AZXG5WVw6E
    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
    MM252
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    44

    Default

    The machine I have is 350p on the weld chart it uses 90% argon 10% Co2
    Thanks for the in put on this topic

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    southern California
    Posts
    1,783

    Default

    There are a couple of us here who have 350P's. Post up if you have any issues with yours.
    Millermatic350P/Python, MillermaticReach/Q300
    Millermatic175
    MillermaticPassport/Q300
    HTP MIG200
    PowCon 300SM, MK Cobramatic
    ThermalArc 185ACDC, Dynaflux Tig'r, CK-20
    DialarcHF, Radiator-1
    Hypertherm PowerMax 380
    Purox oxy/ace
    Jackson EQC
    -F350 CrewCab 4x4
    -LoadNGo utility bed
    -Bobcat 250NT
    -PassportPlus/Q300
    -XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic15A
    -Suitcase8RC/Q400
    -Suitcase12RC/Q300
    -Smith oxy/propane
    -Jackson EQC

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Are ther problems with these machines I have had problems with bad starts and burn back.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West Farmington, OH
    Posts
    746

    Default

    I use either 90/10 or 95/5 for spray arc. I worked at a place that had 95/5 piped throughout the plant for steel welding it really makes a difference in the welds, they wash (wet) in so nicely with the higher argon content even in short arc mode. Normally I weld with 80/20 and get good results from my Millermatic 35 but it's too light of a machine for any spray arc welding with that mixture, I haven't tried 90/10 or 95/5 with it yet.

    Try a small bottle of 90/10 and see what happens. Most welding suppliers will let you take out a small bottle of gas to try out if you're a regular customer. If you're not happy with the results take it back and try a higher argon content mix.
    Blondie (Owner C & S Automotive)

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    03 Ram 1500
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    southern California
    Posts
    1,783

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick C View Post
    Are ther problems with these machines I have had problems with bad starts and burn back.
    I haven't had a lick of trouble with mine and I worked in a shop that had 3 of them we used in high volume production too and we only had minor problems with one of them with the push-pull gun. As much as we used those machines, I'd rate their reliability record as excellent.

    There is a run-in speed adjustment for the start you can play with to help with that. In the aluminum pulse program there is also a hot-start adjustment you can use.

    One note, don't start with a long stick-out length. Start with your stick-out length equal to your stick-out length while welding. It will start rough, spattery and cold if you have too much wire out at the start.

    I haven't had any problems with burn-back on mine. Maybe try reducing your arc-length adjustment or try the crater-fill feature.
    Millermatic350P/Python, MillermaticReach/Q300
    Millermatic175
    MillermaticPassport/Q300
    HTP MIG200
    PowCon 300SM, MK Cobramatic
    ThermalArc 185ACDC, Dynaflux Tig'r, CK-20
    DialarcHF, Radiator-1
    Hypertherm PowerMax 380
    Purox oxy/ace
    Jackson EQC
    -F350 CrewCab 4x4
    -LoadNGo utility bed
    -Bobcat 250NT
    -PassportPlus/Q300
    -XMT304/Optima/Spoolmatic15A
    -Suitcase8RC/Q400
    -Suitcase12RC/Q300
    -Smith oxy/propane
    -Jackson EQC

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