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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weldhelp View Post
    I've read through this entire thread and it seems to be a good idea to centralize a place where process related info can be gathered on a particular machine. I notice no activity in some time now. This is a really good resource especially for a newbie like me. I documented this by cutting and pasting them into one file. I focused on the post that mentioned specific process and the settings used. Good 200DX quick settings reference resource!!! After experimenting with my 200DX, I have a question:


    1. What is the difference between these two settings:

    1. Amp 60, PPS 300, Peak 50, Background 50
    2. Amp 34, PPS 300, Peak 90, background 50

    if I understand correctly, I realize in #1 peak=30amps, background =15amps, and #2 peak=30amps (give or take .01 or so) background = 15 amps. If the numbers are equal the same amps output will the weld characteric (performance) be the same -- minus the use of a foot pedal? Please let me know and correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

    2nd question -- what usually causes an EWG tungsten to ball up when welding mild steel?
    The easiest way to check it is to start welding, full pedal and read the ammeter it will tell you the amps with those settings.

    If the tungsten balls welding steel, the polarity could be wrong, or possibly the machine is in AC.

    To Tig weld steel, the polarity needs to be DC, straight polarity.
    mike sr

  2. #212
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    SW Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weldhelp View Post
    I've read through this entire thread and it seems to be a good idea to centralize a place where process related info can be gathered on a particular machine. I notice no activity in some time now. This is a really good resource especially for a newbie like me. I documented this by cutting and pasting them into one file. I focused on the post that mentioned specific process and the settings used. Good 200DX quick settings reference resource!!! After experimenting with my 200DX, I have a question:


    1. What is the difference between these two settings:

    1. Amp 60, PPS 300, Peak 50, Background 50
    2. Amp 34, PPS 300, Peak 90, background 50

    if I understand correctly, I realize in #1 peak=30amps, background =15amps, and #2 peak=30amps (give or take .01 or so) background = 15 amps. If the numbers are equal the same amps output will the weld characteric (performance) be the same -- minus the use of a foot pedal? Please let me know and correct me if I'm misunderstanding.
    If the terminology is the same as the 300DX, "Peak" is the percent of time at the set current, and "Background" is the percent of set current for the remaining time.

    #1 - 60 amps 50% of the time
    30 amps 50% of the time.
    average current - 45 amps

    #2 - 34 amps 90% of the time
    17 amps 10% of the time.
    average current - 32.3 amps
    Dynasty 300DX
    MM350P
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    Smith LW7, MW1, AW1
    Smith AR/He Mixer

  3. #213
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    Jun 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4sfed View Post
    If the terminology is the same as the 300DX, "Peak" is the percent of time at the set current, and "Background" is the percent of set current for the remaining time.

    #1 - 60 amps 50% of the time
    30 amps 50% of the time.
    average current - 45 amps

    #2 - 34 amps 90% of the time
    17 amps 10% of the time.
    average current - 32.3 amps
    I appreciate the help. Although, I'm a bit confused. Regarding your average, where are you getting the 10%. In both "1" and "2" the background pertentage is the same. Based on the average you've calculated, are you saying that the background amps is determine by the difference in the "Peak" amp percentage time the "background" amp percentage which in the #2 scenario would be: 100% - 90% = 10% x 34 amps x 50% = 1.9 background amps????

    Then 34 amps x 90% = 30.6 peak amps
    30.6 peak amps + 1.9 background amps = 32.5 average amps

    is that how you're calculating back ground amps?

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weldhelp View Post
    I appreciate the help. Although, I'm a bit confused. Regarding your average, where are you getting the 10%. In both "1" and "2" the background pertentage is the same. Based on the average you've calculated, are you saying that the background amps is determine by the difference in the "Peak" amp percentage time the "background" amp percentage which in the #2 scenario would be: 100% - 90% = 10% x 34 amps x 50% = 1.9 background amps????

    Then 34 amps x 90% = 30.6 peak amps
    30.6 peak amps + 1.9 background amps = 32.5 average amps

    is that how you're calculating back ground amps?
    I think you're confused about the terms. "Peak" refers to the percentage of time at peak current. In #1 that is 60 amps for 50% of the pulse. "Background" is the percentage of peak amps. So in #1, it's 60 amps for 50% of the pulse, then 30 amps (50% of 60 amps) for the remaining 50% of the pulse.

    In #2 it's 34 amps for 90% of the pulse, then 17 amps (50% of 34 amps) for the remaining 10% of the pulse.

    If you were to change the pulse frequency to 1 PPS, the #2 would be 34 amps for 0.9 seconds followed by 17 amps for 0.1 seconds . . .

    To calculate average current it's: (90% times 34 amps + 10% and 17 amps) divided by 100%.
    Dynasty 300DX
    MM350P
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  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4sfed View Post
    I think you're confused about the terms. "Peak" refers to the percentage of time at peak current. In #1 that is 60 amps for 50% of the pulse. "Background" is the percentage of peak amps. So in #1, it's 60 amps for 50% of the pulse, then 30 amps (50% of 60 amps) for the remaining 50% of the pulse.

    In #2 it's 34 amps for 90% of the pulse, then 17 amps (50% of 34 amps) for the remaining 10% of the pulse.

    If you were to change the pulse frequency to 1 PPS, the #2 would be 34 amps for 0.9 seconds followed by 17 amps for 0.1 seconds . . .

    To calculate average current it's: (90% times 34 amps + 10% and 17 amps) divided by 100%.
    Your right, I completely misunderstood the terms and their meaning. I understand now. I thought "Peak T" setting was establishing "Peak amps" which was a percentage of the Main amps determined by the "Peak T" setting. I realize now it's "the percentage of time at peak current". Thanks for your help and patients!!!

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weldhelp View Post
    I appreciate the help. Although, I'm a bit confused. Regarding your average, where are you getting the 10%. In both "1" and "2" the background pertentage is the same. Based on the average you've calculated, are you saying that the background amps is determine by the difference in the "Peak" amp percentage time the "background" amp percentage which in the #2 scenario would be: 100% - 90% = 10% x 34 amps x 50% = 1.9 background amps????

    Then 34 amps x 90% = 30.6 peak amps
    30.6 peak amps + 1.9 background amps = 32.5 average amps

    is that how you're calculating back ground amps?
    Just for grins I set up the machine to the stated figures and the first read 45 amps the second set of figures was 33 amps.

    I was just curious as to how close the readout really was......
    mike sr

  7. #217
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    Jun 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes View Post
    Just for grins I set up the machine to the stated figures and the first read 45 amps the second set of figures was 33 amps.

    I was just curious as to how close the readout really was......
    That's funny. I seem to get to those numbers using this formula:

    60(Main amps) x 50%(Peak T) + 60(Main amps) x 50%(background) x 50% (remaining time from peak t percentage) = 45 average amps

    34(Main amps) x 90%(Peak T) + 34(Main amps) x 50%(background) x 10% (remaining time from peak t percentage) = 32.3 average amps


    Using this formula below from "4sfed" didn't seem to work unless i was doing something wrong.

    "To calculate average current it's: (90% times 34 amps + 10% and 17 amps) divided by 100%".



    Last edited by Weldhelp; 06-24-2014 at 07:28 AM.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weldhelp View Post
    That's funny. I seem to get to those numbers using this formula:

    60(Main amps) x 50%(Peak T) + 60(Main amps) x 50%(background) x 50% (remaining time from peak t percentage) = 45 average amps

    34(Main amps) x 90%(Peak T) + 34(Main amps) x 50%(background) x 10% (remaining time from peak t percentage) = 32.3 average amps


    Using this formula below from "4sfed" didn't seem to work unless i was doing something wrong.

    "To calculate average current it's: (90% times 34 amps + 10% and 17 amps) divided by 100%".



    mathematically, the syntax is correct (with the exception of the word "and", should have been "of", which mathematically just means "times"). If you change it all to decimal it becomes:

    (0.90*34 + 0.10*17)/1 = 32.3 (because 100% in decimal = 1)

    Notice how if you end up dividing be "1", it has no net effect. Anything divided by 1 results in the original quantity. The "percentage conversion" was already done without having to divide because to use percentages is to use decimal equivalents. What he [probably] meant to say was:

    (90*34 + 10*17)/100= 32.3 (same thing he wrote, just use your mind's eye to "remove" the percentage symbols)

    Both are equivalent by way of algebraic manipulation of common factors.
    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
    Eastwood MIG175 w/spoolgun
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  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarJr View Post
    mathematically, the syntax is correct (with the exception of the word "and", should have been "of", which mathematically just means "times"). If you change it all to decimal it becomes:

    (0.90*34 + 0.10*17)/1 = 32.3 (because 100% in decimal = 1)

    Notice how if you end up dividing be "1", it has no net effect. Anything divided by 1 results in the original quantity. The "percentage conversion" was already done without having to divide because to use percentages is to use decimal equivalents. What he [probably] meant to say was:

    (90*34 + 10*17)/100= 32.3 (same thing he wrote, just use your mind's eye to "remove" the percentage symbols)

    Both are equivalent by way of algebraic manipulation of common factors.
    I appreciate your efforts but I really wasn't trying to "use my mind's eye" to figure out why his equation didn't work. LOL! Last I checked via when my son's 5th grade math (pre algebra), "and" means to add. Also, using "my minds eye" I learned and understood the concepts of physics w/trig and calculus while still in high school prior to college. Just because a person is new to welding doesn't mean that they're in need of a 3 grade math lesson being prescribe by Mr. Rogers -- "...ok boys and girls now that you've had your milk and cookies, I need you to put your thinking caps on and use your mind's eye". It is absolutely clear to me that 4sfed is a very bright intelligent highly knowledge person in the area of welding and beyond. I'm more than certain he understood where his formula was incorrect, but his point was made clear; therefore, he obviously didn't feel the need to further explain something so simple. I only pointed it out because I didn't want to cause further confusion for anyone else that may have been interested in the info. I wasn't in need of anyone explaining to me what he meant. Nonetheless, do you have any "Process-Set up" info to share regarding your Tig projects. I realize you have a HTP 221 and not a Dynasty 200, 280, 300, or 350 (oh wait....did the HTP sales guy tell you to "just use your mind's eye and think HTP and not MILLER" -- JUST JOKING!!!! ). Nonetheless, I'm very much interested in knowing what pulse, ac, amp, and all other settings you're using to acquire specific arc characteristics necessary to complete specific weld types on specific materials. I'm trying to document as much of that as possible so that I have a good resource that I can use as a quick reference for starting points when I encounter something similar. Thanks Oscar Jr.! Again the HTP/"mind's eye" thing was just a joke and I hope you weren't offended!! Please share your info. Thanks!!
    Last edited by Weldhelp; 07-01-2014 at 05:38 AM.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarJr View Post
    mathematically, the syntax is correct (with the exception of the word "and", should have been "of", which mathematically just means "times"). If you change it all to decimal it becomes:

    Both are equivalent by way of algebraic manipulation of common factors.
    I had to visit this discussion several times to see my typo . . . I could only "see" what I thought I typed. Thanks for the correction.
    Dynasty 300DX
    MM350P
    Hobart Handler 120
    Smith LW7, MW1, AW1
    Smith AR/He Mixer

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