Cure for butter fingered Airman

[aametalmaster]

Some of our sightglass glass is 3" thick. I would love to see that Sinclair glass. I remember when Sinclair pulled out of Ohio in the 60's. they had a commericial on TV with Dino the dinosaur waving good bye and he had a stick with a hobo pack on it...Bob

[Pass-N-Gas]

OK here's my perspective of what I see in the pic:

1 - You have added a possible source of ignition into the equation by adding a metal frame work as it bouncing off of the floor / walls ect could create sparks and the contents are highly flammable ..

2 - It looks like a standard canning jar to me not a plastic coated glass collection jar..

3 - What type of pressure are you dealing with and is the sample collection valve a ball valve or needle valve ?

4 -Is there a clamping device to hold the collection jar w / cage at the site of collection? to prevent it from being blown around by the pressure you mentioned..

I'm not trying to bust your chops I just don't want to see anybody hurt. I work with high pressure highly explosive materials myself..

Safety is a result of teamwork and not by accident..

[Pass-N-Gas]

Ahhh but if it IS an approved container, and happens to be made of glass.....

Seriously the "stickers" at the pump are mostly a CYA for numbskulls that probably shouldnt be allowed to handle fuel in the first place. Glass fuel checking containers are the norm at the airfield. Not to mention glass fuel level sights, glass globes on fuel/water seperators etc etc. Love the "cage" , somewhere at home I have a Sinclair fuel inspection glass from the '40's , has a wooden handle strapped to is a a couple "bumper" rings on the top and bottom. Ill have to see if I can dig that up.

Yes I'm familiar with site glasses plastic and glass both..

Your "Wooden Handle" would not create sparks would it? the concept behind the plastic coating is to prevent rapid loss of the contents in case the container being broke..

I'm just trying to interject some safety here..

I recently got a safety memo from a fellow worker...

The crew was working on a 200 bbl tank full of condensate and water. the valve needed to be replaced at the bottom of the tank, the idea was to remove the old one and stab the new one.. Well that was great in theory but not in practical application.. no one was hurt and nothing burnt to the ground or blew up.. they cleaned up the mess and went home alive and hopefully a little wiser after the safety personel got a hold of them...

[Old Sporty]

Unbelievable!! A person comes on this site and posts what I think is a creative way of solving a specific problem he has to deal with frequently and we get two pages of safety notices. Don't you think he has considered the safety aspects of what he is doing? He specifically stated that the purpose was to help prevent the sample jar from being blown out of the persons hand when they take the sample. I think it's pretty obvious that if you drop a glass jar whether it's in a cage or not, it will most likely break. Pretty sure this has crossed the OP's mind. As for the restrictions on glass fuel containers, that is for the transportation and storage of gasoline and has nothing to do with this. There's nothing evil about taking a fuel sample in a glass container as it will only be in there for a short time.

I for one appreciate what you posted CaseyMckinney. Keep up the good work.

[Larwyn]

Fear of the safety man has done more to decrease productivity and increase cost than anything else. People are naturally inclined to choose a safe approach to accomplishing a task because it can be painful not to do so, and most of us do not like pain. Wearing a hard hat where there is a danger of falling objects is common sense and most would choose to do so. Being required to wear a hard hat to get out of the truck and open a gate when there is nothing overhead is pure BS, a power trip for Mr Safety Man and annoying time consumer for the employee. Of all the management personnel at the agency I retired from, the one I would most like to see impaled and burned at the stake is the safety man. No common sense and in his mind, without him, we would all be maimed amputees or dead. He had no idea of the true safety concerns faced by people in an electrical sub station. He even tried to require us to wear steel toed work boots, not exactly the best choice in electrical safety shoes. But they did often come in handy when we looked down and that stupid hardhat feel off, momentarily no longer protecting us from that sky that might fall at any minute. A fall harness had to be worn anytime you used a ladder, even a 4' step ladder where there was nothing to tie off to, so in order to change a light bulb, you had to have a fall harness, steel toed safety boots, electrically insulated gloves, long sleeve nomex shirt, safety glasses, and a hard hat. It's a wonder we did not have to have a "lift plan" in order to get that bulb up overhead like that. Safe is safe, but senseless overkill in the safety department can be extremely time consuming and costly.

[CaseyMckinney]

OK allow me to clarify once more. There are precisely zero safety concerns with this cage. The sampler is used on JP-8 with a flash point of 118F. The fuel is discharging from the truck at a max of 50psi from a one inch line. For all the safety minded folks out there the man taking the sample is in full PPE. As for creating a spark, and starting a fire, let’s just say that my concerns for getting struck by lightning are about the same. I realize that you are just trying to help and that’s cool, however let me reassure you. I have been working with jet fuel for 11 years, I follow my tech data to the letter, and for every rule OSHA gives civilians AFOSH gives me two more. Additionally, we did put it into the field and it worked great.

P.S. To the gentleman that suggested using wood; This is a welding site I think you were looking for this:
www.newyankee.com

[Pass-N-Gas]

OK allow me to clarify once more. There are precisely zero safety concerns with this cage. The sampler is used on JP-8 with a flash point of 118F. The fuel is discharging from the truck at a max of 50psi from a one inch line. For all the safety minded folks out there the man taking the sample is in full PPE. As for creating a spark, and starting a fire, let’s just say that my concerns for getting struck by lightning are about the same. I realize that you are just trying to help and that’s cool, however let me reassure you. I have been working with jet fuel for 11 years, I follow my tech data to the letter, and for every rule OSHA gives civilians AFOSH gives me two more. Additionally, we did put it into the field and it worked great.

P.S. To the gentleman that suggested using wood; This is a welding site I think you were looking for this:
www.newyankee.com

Well golly gee whiz bang you could of made the cage out of aluminum or brass as well. and used a non sparking brass bolt.. your great little invention might go 100 times without incident but all it takes is that one time and you have dead or burned people to deal with all because you overlooked the possibility of a spark created by a metal cage or bolt.

But hey you know it all..

Were just dumb civilian peons here in the patch.... Who provides you with the fuel that you use...

[CaseyMckinney]

Pass-N-Gas, I suppose I read a post from someone and they assured me that this was there area of expertise I would go ahead and take their word for it. I posted a photo of a simple project that I designed to save time and prevent fuel spills. I also stated that I followed all safety regulations. That should have been that, instead I got the bad son treatment from people that have never met me. I guess I just figured this was a site for people to bounce ideas off each other. In response to your comment "Were just dumb civilian peons--who provides you with the fuel you use” I have no issue with civilians, I work with and for many civilians directly. When I find myself against a wall, the tech team I call is full of civilian chemists. Furthermore, I make no mistake about the fact that as a government employee I work for you. In doing so, I have additional regulations I have to follow. I have civilian inspectors and military inspectors. If I offended you, that is unfortunate. All I ask is, if someone says “no guys, it’s cool I checked the regs already” drop it and move on.

[shortarc]

Sounds to me like the safety police were off work yesterday and just had to have something to do.

I have to go with Larwyn and Old Sporty. By the way CaseyMckinney I like the cage idea, looks like it will solve the problem.

[On fire most of the time]

Casey, looks good! I know nothing about collecting fuel, but I trust youve been around long enough to know what NOT to do, and if that keeps you from dropping the sample, then case closed, good night, and all that jazz.


Pass'n: Normally I have no issue with your posts...but youre treating this guy like hes your 5 year old kid...lay off just a little man. He's obviously still alive, and as a government worker (I would never want a government job btw) he has to deal with far more stringent regulations for pooping than most people do for driving.

On that happy note...do you have one of these Pass? Might need it for when you drive a nail in a hazardous environment... http://www.amazon.com/Ampco-German-S...810257&sr=8-10