Miller Electric

Welding Discussion Forums

Home » Resources » Communities » Welding Discussion Forums
 
Miller Welding Discussion Forums - Powered by vBulletin

Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1

    Default Welding 304SS Headers

    I'm building a set of 304SS headers and I'm using a Diversion 165. I've been practicing quite a bit, but my question is if I only use enough filler rod to keep my puddle going, is the weld going to be strong enough??? I dab a little push the weld a ways and then dab a little more... I can make the weld look very pretty with this method, but I want it to be strong as well...

    Another question, if the butt weld joints are perfect with absolutely no gaps, is filler rod even required????

    Thanks in advance!!!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    835

    Default

    It depends. The throat of your weld should be as thick as the base material. If it's thinner, it will crack from thermal strain.

    As for "perfect fitup," you can make autogenous welds from the outside edge (imagine welding the seam of a box-you weld from the outside) pretty readily because you are welding the root. But with headers, the root is inside the tubing. You should leave enough gap to have a keyhole going and fill it with rod. Otherwise, you will not fuse the root and it will seed cracks through.
    Equipped with red and blue... and red and green!
    80% of failures are from 20% of causes
    Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
    "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
    "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
    "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Anchorage AK
    Posts
    344

    Default

    I would add back purge or Solar Flux type b.

    http://www.solarflux.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Lake of the Ozarks MO
    Posts
    3,507

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FATFAB View Post
    I would add back purge or Solar Flux type b.

    http://www.solarflux.com/
    What a pityful website.
    Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
    MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
    Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

    Miller Bobcat 225 NT
    Miller 30-A Spoolgun
    Miller WC-115-A
    Miller Spectrum 300
    Miller Spoolmate 200
    Miller 225 Thunderbolt
    SPEEDGLAS 9100XX

  5. #5

    Default

    the weld bead is best if it can be slightly raised from the surface. The 304 will expand and contract quite a bit and is prone to cracking especially in high heat applications like turbo's.

    I have seen some on Nissans and other last 6 months if luck and these are factory made units like HKS and such.

    I have made several out of mild steel and have held up very well. One is 2 years old on a turbo charged car. Schedule 40 1.25" mild steel weld els with 1.25 mild steel pipe for the straights. 3/8th flange on head and 1/2 flange for turbo.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Queens NY
    Posts
    1,547

    Default

    I would go with the backpurge if your going for a full penetration (keyhole) weld. In my experience getting the solar flux in the puddle causes trouble.
    Dynasty 200 DX
    Millermatic 175
    Spectrum 375
    All kinds of Smith OA gear

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    812

    Default

    I'd probably do a few test welds on short sections (I know, SS is expensive!) cut them apart and see what kind of results you're getting. That will provide you with answers better than we can, without knowing your skill level and execution. I built some mild steel headers a few years back, and was amazed at the penetration I had on 14 GA tubing.
    A tip for you: A tuned header is going to make the best performance results. Strive for equal length primary tubes. They can be difficult to measure, but I came up with a trick that worked extremely accurately: I put a rubber plug in one end of the tube and filled the tubes with water. By measuring how much water each tube holds, you can calculate its length. My headers turned out not varying by more than 1/2" shortest to longest!
    Not a great shot of the header, but here:
    Miller Syncrowave 200
    Homemade Water Cooler
    130XP MIG
    Spectrum 375
    60 year old Logan Lathe
    Select Machine and Tool Mill
    More stuff than I can keep track of..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default

    Just wanted to add a cool little idea i came up with ( or started using, I"m probably not the first) but go to the hardware store and get some of those expanding rubber plugs for closing off pipe ends and put one in one end of the tube you're working on but take the bolt out or leave it loose so the air can be pushed out, then take another one and push it in with the bol removed also and screw the end of an argon hose into it these were teh cheapest and best ways to adapt back gassing to pipe that i've found to this day ( i used tape on the ends as recomended in a book i read but got tired of cleaning tape residue off materials that got hot and melted the tape sticky stuff making it hard to remove)

    As for solarflux B, I love it, I mena flux isn't quite as good as back gassing, but I've talked to a lot of other old timer fab guys that build headers and most said they went to the solarflux to save argon, save time, and to get rid of the clutter and help make fit up easier without the purging lines being there.
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodybagger View Post
    It depends. The throat of your weld should be as thick as the base material. If it's thinner, it will crack from thermal strain.

    As for "perfect fitup," you can make autogenous welds from the outside edge (imagine welding the seam of a box-you weld from the outside) pretty readily because you are welding the root. But with headers, the root is inside the tubing. You should leave enough gap to have a keyhole going and fill it with rod. Otherwise, you will not fuse the root and it will seed cracks through.
    I butt the ends, but bevel to approximately half the thickness of the tubing and back purge. I've used the Solar Flux, but the puddle develops a film that makes it sluggish and you get a hard coating of flux on the inside.

    When welding a "bend", the tubing is much thicker on the inside of the radius, so adjust the bevel accordingly.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hazelwood Mo USA
    Posts
    460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by turboglenn View Post
    Just wanted to add a cool little idea i came up with ( or started using, I"m probably not the first) but go to the hardware store and get some of those expanding rubber plugs for closing off pipe ends and put one in one end of the tube you're working on but take the bolt out or leave it loose so the air can be pushed out, then take another one and push it in with the bol removed also and screw the end of an argon hose into it these were teh cheapest and best ways to adapt back gassing to pipe that i've found to this day ( i used tape on the ends as recomended in a book i read but got tired of cleaning tape residue off materials that got hot and melted the tape sticky stuff making it hard to remove)

    I have used rubber plugs, armaflex insulation, foam packing material, cut out with a homemade cookie cutter. I liked the foam or armaflex ones the best as they were cheap to make and scrap material plentiful.
    On dairy tubing, I used heavy aluminum foil on the fitting as the tangents were only 1/2" long and they do get hot. Tape will work on a long tangent ferrule, but as you said it is difficult to remove unless done while its still warm.

    300 series Stainless will crack much quicker than carbon steel, and if it isnt purge welded and 100% penetration it cracks even easier.

    I have made a few exhaust systems (purged) and they lasted the life of the vehicles, I made two different sets of headers for a race car years ago but never heard back if they cracked or not.
    mike sr

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Non-static method PhpQuickProfiler::getMicroTime() should not be called statically in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/pqp/classes/Console.php on line 77

Warning: Function split() is deprecated in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/footer.inc.php on line 62

Welding Projects

Special Offers: See the latest Miller deals and promotions.

Warning: Function split() is deprecated in /mnt/stor3-wc1-dfw1/357822/357839/www.millerwelds.com/web/content/lib/footer.inc.php on line 137