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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    17

    Default Dynasty 200DX Problem

    Hi all. New guy here, my name is Jack. A little background: I've been welding since the mid-'90s (mostly MIG and O/A), and got into TIG "for real" a few years back. Took several semesters of TIG specific courses at one of the local community colleges (what they say is true: if you can weld with O/A, you're just a hop, skip and a jump away from TIG), and now, here I am. I mostly perform automotive related work on hot rods and customs.

    After a long time scrimping and saving, I finally bought a Dynasty 200DX and the foot controller contractor's kit in July of this year. I love this welder. Except when I have problems with it:

    A couple of weeks ago, I decided to crank the machine up to capacity, and see how I well I could weld on thicker material (3/16" hot roll plate scraps), as well as play with the pulse feature. (As I said, I mostly deal with automotive related stuff, so think 18 gauge sheet.) While I was welding, I got a HELP 3 code on the screens, and the machine shut down. OK, I look in the manual, and it's a heat sink overheat, wait for the fan to cool it off. Except that the fan isn't running. So I shut the machine down and go do something else for about an hour. It's cooled off, so I go back to welding. Same thing happens at half the amps, overheat, no fan.

    I take my machine to my local authorized Miller Service rep, explain the problem, and I'm on my way. This was two weeks ago.

    I get a call from them yesterday afternoon saying that it's ready. I couldn't get over there fast enough this morning!! They said that they replaced the fan. Cool, I'm good to go.

    Anyway, I get home, wire it back up, and get back to what I was doing before, and the same thing happens: no fan. I called my local rep back and told them that it was doing the same thing, so of course, they told me to bring it in on Monday.

    I let it cool off again, and cut the amps roughly in half (110), and continued to play with the pulse. Same thing again: no fan.

    Has anyone else had cooling problems with their Dynasty 200DX? I did a search and couldn't find anything specific to cooling problems with the Dynasty.

    Sorry for the book!!

    P.S.: FWIW, it's on a 60 amp 220 volt breaker, and is sitting on the ground in my garage with nothing on either side, and approximately 14" away from the wall, so it's getting plenty of power and plenty of air. I guess I should also mention that my first TIG was a Miller EconoTIG, and my second was a Miller MaxStar STL. I also have a Lincoln SP100 MIG, and a lot of O/A gear.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default

    This may be adumb question, but the biggest mistake i see on miller multi-line machines is that people use the red and black for the 2 poles on 220 volt... The red shoud be taped off and isolated for any voltage but 3-Phase...

    Check and make sure it's wired correctly, black = power .... White = power & Greeen = ground (Red taped off)

    I've heard of bad things happening when people hook them up using the red on single phase 220/115.
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    2,428

    Default

    The fan won't come on at all until the internal thermostat reaches a certain temperature. You could conceiveably weld at moderate amperages without the fan ever coming on.
    Dynasty 350DX
    Dynasty 200DX TigRunner
    MM 350P
    MM Passport Plus
    Spectrum 375 Extreme
    08' Trailblazer 302

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Turboglen, I'm way ahead of you!! Got it hooked up right with the red taped off.

    KB Fabrications, can you define moderate? It just happened again at 100 amps DC after about 20 minutes (15 minutes total with one smoke break). And no fan running with HELP 3 on the screens. The case itself is warm to the touch (as expected), but not hot.

    I know that it's no comparison, but this only ever happened once with my EconoTIG, and it was on a 90 degree day (current temperature here is 64 degrees F), welding 3/16" aluminum. The fan would come pretty regularly with that machine as well.

    3/32" thoriated, 3/32" ER70S-2, gas lens, WP-17 torch, if any of that helps.

    Some time tomorrow, I'll give it another shot without using pulse and I'll report back.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Troy, MI
    Posts
    324

    Default

    I have owned my Dynasty 200DX for two years. During that time I have welded for hours on steel and aluminum at various ambient temperatures, currents and duty cycles. The fan turns on when it needs to. I have never had a help 3 error ever. I think that you need to bring the welder back for repair.

    Miller Thunderbolt
    Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
    Miller Dynasty 200DX
    Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
    Clausing/Coldchester 15" Lathe
    16" DuAll Saw
    15" Drill Press
    7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
    20 Ton Arbor Press
    Bridgeport

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    835

    Default

    Think of how the fan on demand system works...

    1:the heat sink must get warm.
    2: it has to SENSE the heat sink getting warm.
    3: it has to understand that a warm heat sink requires the fan to be turned on.
    4: it has to send voltage out to the fan
    5: the fan must mechanically operate when voltage is applied to it.


    Ok. Step one requires heat. Got it.

    Step 2 requires thermistor RT-1 to be working, bonded to the heat sink well enough to get warm, and electrically connected to board PC 3 WELD CONTOL/OPERATOR INTERFACE

    Step 3 requires board PC3 WELD CONTOL/OPERATOR INTERFACE to be working and electrically connected to board PC1 INVERTER CONTROL

    Step 4 requires board PC1 INVERTER CONTROL to be working properly and electrically connected to the fan

    Step 5 requires the fan to work.


    Given this necessary order of events to make the fan come on, replacing the fan because it doesn't come on when hot is like replacing the tires on your car because it won't "go" when you stomp on the accelerator. If your car won't roll, tires must be bad, right?

    If a new fan doesn't fix it, the problem is with thermistor RT-1, board PC3, board PC1, or the connections between. A good service place would have checked the fan to see if it was broke before replacing it.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

    But most importantly, any service place should see that they fixed the problem before sending it back to you. Take it somewhere else.
    Equipped with red and blue... and red and green!
    80% of failures are from 20% of causes
    Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
    "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
    "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
    "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodybagger View Post
    Think of how the fan on demand system works...

    1:the heat sink must get warm.
    2: it has to SENSE the heat sink getting warm.
    3: it has to understand that a warm heat sink requires the fan to be turned on.
    4: it has to send voltage out to the fan
    5: the fan must mechanically operate when voltage is applied to it.
    So the fan NEVER comes on, even when it's hot enough to shut down weld output?

    I just thought about it a little more. If you are getting the overheat error, then both thermistor RT1 and board PC3 WELD CONTOL/OPERATOR INTERFACE are probably working correctly since it is sensing the heat.

    There are 3 temperature ranges and different ouputs for each.
    Cool=no fan but welding OK
    warm=turn fan on, welding still OK
    hot=keep fan on, too hot to weld - shut down weld power and display error

    It could be possible that RT1 is changing resistance so drastically with heat that it essentially "skips" the warm state and thinks it's too hot to weld, but the fan would still come on. So this is not the case.

    I'm starting to think your problem is with board PC1 INVERTER CONTROL not outputting voltage to your fan.

    Steps 1,2, and 5 seem to be OK. Step 4 is definately not working and step 3 is unknown. 10% chance it's PC3, 80% chance it's PC1, and I'll let Murphy decide what the other 10% is.
    Equipped with red and blue... and red and green!
    80% of failures are from 20% of causes
    Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
    "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
    "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
    "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    447

    Default

    I would go in and have them fix more thna just teh fan...explained (even print out what bodybagger said and tell them you want those checked thoroughly or you'll not biu another miller welder period!!!

    Miller is the most expensive and the dynasty 200dx is supposed to be the best of teh best...Maybe cheack the serial number with the "askandy" colum and see if there's a known issue that might have been overlooked.

    These machines cost way too much for a 200 amp unit to be having issues. I love mine and tig for ours on AL, SS, A-36,4130 and so on and my fan just goes on and off...

    As a last resort if your warranty was up or just didn't give a crap would be to buy the fan and either wire it to your own stand alone thermister or just put a switch on it and turn it on while you're welding, off when you're not to keep silence.

    Best of luck... I hope those guys get it fixed right..

    Plus, if you talk to the miller Rep. You MIGHT be able to get a NEW model 200DX with adjustable square, soft square and triangle wave out puts (in hidden menues)

    what year is your's?
    Dynasty 200DX
    Hobart Handler 135
    Smith MB55A-510 O/A setup
    Lathe/Mill/Bandsaw
    Hypertherm Powermax 45
    Just about every other hand tool you can imagine

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Thanks for the responses, guys!! This machine was purchased new at the end of July '08. (According to the serial number chart, this machine was built in January '08) It was another couple of weeks before I could afford the contractor's kit, and had to sell my EconoTIG to get the kit. I haven't used it much because I had mechanical work going on right after I bought it. I bought it from Indiana Oxygen Supply. They had the best price that I could find anywhere (for a couple of years!!), and beat my local Miller dealer by several hundred dollars. (And yes, they seemed a little pissed when I brought my machine to them for repair, but recognized the warranty.)

    As far as the repair shop is concerned, I figured they knew what they were doing. It sounded reasonable that they replaced the fan since it wasn't working. Obviously it just wasn't that simple. Bummer.

    turboglen, where can I find the askandy column? I searched but didn't find anything.

    Bodybagger, no, the fan never comes on. Not ever. I can weld for maybe twenty minutes, with frequent stops, and then the arc quits, the gas post flows for the usual 10 seconds, and then the code comes up.

    I guess it'll go back next week. I just hate having to be without it for another couple of weeks. I have work stacked up as it is.

    Ha!! I was going to ask who Murphy was, but then I realized that you were referring to the "Law" guy.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Mpls, MN
    Posts
    1,790

    Default

    Sounds like they're dinking you around because you didn't buy it from them. Let them know you can find another service center just the same as you found someone else to buy it from. Also let them know if it doesn't work this time, you'll report them to Miller so Miller can deny payment for not fixing the machine on their dime.

    There's no way anyone should've allowed it out of service without verifying it was functioning. After all, they'll have a load bank to connect it to for making it "work" hard inducing the fan to come on.
    Syncrowave 250DX
    Invison 354MP
    XR Control and 30A

    Airco MED20 feeder
    Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
    Smith O/A rig
    And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

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