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  1. #11
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post
    And so I can brag to my wife, what would this kind of job cost if I had it done by a pro?
    No Matter the $$ by a pro, Half way through it will seem cheap

    I have a hammer drill you can use when the time comes.

    Just get in touch with me when ya need it.
    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
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  2. #12
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    Dec 2007
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    One thing is if you know the length of the Pickets ask what the cost will be to have them all cut to length.

    Sometimes it is worth the extra $.

    http://www.mkmetal.net/

    Good prices on material.
    Ed Conley
    http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
    MM252
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    TA185
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  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post

    I have a hammer drill you can use when the time comes.

    Just get in touch with me when ya need it.
    Hey Ed,
    That was a really kind gesture on your part!!!!
    Becky
    Thanks Becky

    Miller Matic 210

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  4. #14
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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Arizona
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    812

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post
    (I do understand that a pro would do a much better job than me.)
    Hey, Don't sell yourself short, a lot of the "pros" skimp on quality for productivity, something you're not likely to do since you have a vested interest in it. Good luck with your project and post up some pics of your progress.
    Miller Syncrowave 200
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  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    838

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post

    I don't like the architecture of square tubing horizontals with pickets stuck to the face -- it seems kind of kludgy compared to the punched channel. But maybe it has better anti-sag properties?
    As in stiffness along the x-x axis... depends. A small rectangular tube may have a lower stiffness than a heavy punched channel, and vice versa. Depends on the cross section. But generally speaking, the punched channel I've seen is not very stiff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post
    At least, I would guess that where the pickets are just bearing weight for punched channel, they are actually providing some rigidity to square tubing if they're welded on both of their vertical edges where they overlap the square tubing. Maybe I'm totally wrong about that, though. But the fence down the street has 9-foot spans and has no sag problem, even when I try pulling down in the center of the panel. Granted, it's 1-1/4" tubing and I'm not sure of its wall thickness.
    When the pickets are welded to the horizontals, it becomes a composite beam. So yes, you're right. It does contribute - but the stiffness it adds is so minuscule that you can ignore it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post
    I'd prefer to avoid having the pickets contact the wall. So if it means shorter panels, I'm willing to go down that road. My guess would be that 5' panels would be fine with two horizontals of 1" square tubing. But would 5' panels be all right with two spans of punched channel

    It sounds like 5' panels would also mean more stability in terms of posts. So I'll forget about the tiny rectangular tube idea.?
    I think you'll find that the punched channel is not nearly as stiff as tubing. Consider using longer pickets as supports. This is very common. If you are worried about contact rust, it's going to happen wherever you put a post in, too. If you could give me a link that has the cross section of the product you are going to be using (or even better, it's sectional properties) along with the complete dimensions of the pickets you will be using, I can estimate the expected sag for various clear spans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post
    And as long as I've got the attention of some actual welders. Is there a particular steel I should be looking for? A36 hot-rolled? 1018 cold-rolled? Can the two be combined, or will that cause problems?
    If you get HSS rectangular tubing, you are probably getting ASTM A500 grade B (46,000psi). There is no advantage to using a high strength steel. The stiffness depends on the cross section and the modulus of elasticity, which is going to be 29,000ksi for any steel you get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post
    And I've been assuming I should use .023 wire for the indoor assembly of the panels with 75/25 Argon/CO2 and .030 or .035 flux-cored for whatever I have to do behind curtains when it all gets installed. Does that make sense?
    I'd just use .035" flux core for all of it. You'll get a more ductile weld. There will be nasty stuff on your steel that you won't have the time or patience to completely remove. If you are using a PVC curtain to block the UV from public view, that's cool. If you are putting up a curtain to block the wind, that's not necessary for flux core.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Olsen View Post
    And so I can brag to my wife, what would this kind of job cost if I had it done by a pro? It's 80 linear feet of 34" fencing with two gates and about 60 feet that will be secured to the wall while the remaining 20 will need concrete-filled post holes. Any ballpark number? (I do understand that a pro would do a much better job than me.)
    Ballpark for custom wrought iron fencing is $50-$100 per linear foot. I used the entry for 48" aluminum fence in National Construction Estimator with the LA regional prices and 25% overhead, 10% profit, and 10% contingencies to ballpark the price. There wasn't an exact entry for what you're building. Here's the results:

    "Qty","Craft","Hours","Unit","Material","Labor","E quipment","Total"

    "Fencing, aluminum"
    "48 high panel"
    80.00,"BL",13.60,"Ea",5712.00,478.40,0.00,$6190.40

    "Aluminum fence posts"
    "48 high"
    13.00,"BL",10.79,"Ea",245.31,379.60,0.00,$624.91

    "Aluminum single swing gates"
    "48 high"
    2.00,"BL",.3500,"Ea",520.20,12.32,0.00,$532.52

    "Aluminum gate posts"
    "48 high"
    4.00,"BL",3.320,"Ea",147.29,116.80,0.00,$264.09

    "Aluminum gate posts"
    "Add for setting post in concrete"
    4.00,"BL",1.320,"Ea",12.32,46.44,0.00,$58.76


    Total Manhours, 29.4
    Material, $6,637.12
    Labor $1,033.56
    Subtotal $7,670.68

    25.00% Overhead $1,917.67
    10.00% Contingency $958.84
    10.00% Profit:$1,054.72

    Estimate Total: $11,601.91

    80% of failures are from 20% of causes
    Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
    "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
    "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
    "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    724

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    [QUOTE=Bodybagger;185362] This is very common. If you are worried about contact rust, it's going to happen wherever you put a post in, too.

    Would powder coating and some G.E. silicone under the mounting plate bolted to the concrete help to deter contact rust? Just an idea.
    Thanks,
    Nick

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    105

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    I'd check into powder coating. Makes it look professional and it's not all that expensive considering you won't be repainting every few years. cat

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, Oklahoma
    Posts
    70

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    I made mine using the punch channel. I made a jig out of 4x4 post, just cut a slot in the wood that the punch channel would slide into. The sled the post in the punch and weld. Start the weld on channel first it is thicker than your pickets. One thing nice about a fence like this bad weld won't matter as long as they penetrate and hold. This was my first project.

    1" sg tubing for frame.

    The 4x4 poles were not painted yet.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
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    234

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    That looks great.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    838

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    Quote Originally Posted by smooth72 View Post
    I made mine using the punch channel. I made a jig out of 4x4 post, just cut a slot in the wood that the punch channel would slide into. The sled the post in the punch and weld. Start the weld on channel first it is thicker than your pickets. One thing nice about a fence like this bad weld won't matter as long as they penetrate and hold. This was my first project.
    I notice that all your pickets go to ground level. That certainly makes sag a non-issue.

    80% of failures are from 20% of causes
    Never compromise your principles today in the name of furthering them in the future.
    "All I ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work." -Sgt. Bilko
    "We are generally better persuaded by reasons we discover ourselves than by those given to us by others." -Pascal
    "Since we cannot know all that there is to be known about anything, we ought to know a little about everything." -Pascal

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