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Thread: Gas VS Diesel

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    135

    Question Gas VS Diesel

    I need some advice from someone in the know. Currently I run the new TB302G and since this machine only has 55hrs of use, it is just starting to break in nicely. I was wondering if anyone else had noticed that the TB's don't seem to find their own sweet spot until about the 80 to 100 hr mark. I rigged and ran 3 different units for the company I worked for before I went on my own and they all acted the same way. Right from new they will work excellently in any position with the appropriate rod except for a 1/8 7018 which seems to choke the arc until about 80 hrs when suddenly the work like a charm too I was wondering who amongst us has ran both the gas and the diesel 302's and how does the diesel rank against a Lincoln 305D. I am plenty familiar with the bigger Miller and Lincoln diesels and what my little 302G lacks in grunt, it makes up for in arc quality and light weight versatility. So, around all my rambling, my ???? is, is the diesel that much better to justify the extra cost and weight. Thank you in advance for your opinions and advice.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Bulverde, Tx
    Posts
    1,244

    Default

    Ok, first off, I have zero experience with the TB diesels....but, based on lifespan/cost of the 3600 rpm diesel vs a properly PM'd gasser, you won't save much money, if any. If it were a bigger machine and motor, I'd say yeah, get the diesel. But based on my numbers I crunched when I got my TB302, the diesel was flat out way too expensive to justify unless there were specific conditions that required a diesel engine, like refinery work or something like that. If I was going to spend that kind of money, I'd get a bigger machine and be done with it...otherwise stay with gas on the smaller machines. The diesels have better longevity on the 1800 rpm units, but they are very close on the 3600 rpm units from what I have been told. A good gasser that is taken care of can hit 6000 hrs if you are careful. I have seen several of the old Onans do that on TB's and Bobcats.

    My TB302 has been running 7018's just fine since it was started up. Actually, it started out just fine, and has gotten a little better as I approached 65 hrs or so. Some of that I figured was just me learning what it liked and adjusting to match. If it is the unit breaking in, I would suspect the diesel would do the exact same thing since the generators are the same.

    Don't know if my rambling helped, but I would stay with a gasser. Go diesel on the big boys....but that is just my opinion. Your mileage may vary. Should be interetsing to see what everyone else will say.
    Don


    '06 Trailblazer 302
    '06 12RC feeder
    Super S-32P feeder

    HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
    Esab Multimaster 260
    Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ocean City, Maryland
    Posts
    951

    Default

    I agree with DDA52.
    In most any applications, truck or welder, gas is generally less expensive in maint costs, unless you need a truck or welder in the "big" sizes.
    We've got gas and diesel welders and it seems the gas are a little smoother and a little quieter, but we bought diesel so it could run off the trucks fuel tank.
    Scott
    HMW [Heavy Metal welding]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    500

    Cool Gas VS Diesel

    My machines run on gas.the only time you would need diesel is when you are in very cold country.Gas is way cheeper to fix and get parts for.But like anything eles if you don't take care of what you own then how can your machines take care of you.As for the cost difference thats why I bought Gas.
    You can have the gas run off your truck tank as well.It comes down to dollars and cents I guess.I live in the Vancouver area and I think most of the portables out here are diesel.It doesn't get that cold here but people buy these diesel trucks and right away they need a diesel welder I don't get it but hey dollars and cents.I have gone to Alberta with my stuff never had a problem so I don't know.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Bulverde, Tx
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    1,244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HMW View Post
    I agree with DDA52.
    In most any applications, truck or welder, gas is generally less expensive in maint costs, unless you need a truck or welder in the "big" sizes.
    We've got gas and diesel welders and it seems the gas are a little smoother and a little quieter, but we bought diesel so it could run off the trucks fuel tank.

    Now diesel trucks...that is a different animal. I will go with a truck in a heartbeat. Been running them since '90 and will never go back to gas. My last Dodge went 136K with zero engine repair, just reg maint stuff. My last gasser had to have plugs cap and rotor and a carb at or about 50K miles...and again at 85K. Since I went all diesel trucks, my maint costs are even lower. Small welders, no.....trucks, big or small....absolutely.
    Don


    '06 Trailblazer 302
    '06 12RC feeder
    Super S-32P feeder

    HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
    Esab Multimaster 260
    Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ocean City, Maryland
    Posts
    951

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by DDA52 View Post
    Now diesel trucks...that is a different animal. I will go with a truck in a heartbeat. Been running them since '90 and will never go back to gas. My last Dodge went 136K with zero engine repair, just reg maint stuff. My last gasser had to have plugs cap and rotor and a carb at or about 50K miles...and again at 85K. Since I went all diesel trucks, my maint costs are even lower. Small welders, no.....trucks, big or small....absolutely.
    well that truck must have been before about 1987. Been fuel injection on most since. Our fleet is mixed with gas and diesel with larger stuff diesel. The gas engines, some with 200K miles do fine. We put plugs, cap and rotor in at 100K. Probably biggest thing with gas we've had, is electric fuel pumps. I have never had one, but I understand the dodge with the cummins is outstanding. Where I work we have Fords and Chevys. The old [ford]7.3 was a work horse, reliable and tough. Then along came the 6.0 which we work on constantly, jurys still out on the 6.4. The Chevys with the Dura-max, so far, seem good. only a couple of injector problems and lots of instrument clusters so far but pretty reliable. A pickup, for example thats used for normal things is a waste of money to buy diesel. [my opinion of course]In original purchase price, and if any repair costs. diesel fuel costs the same as gas. Now, to haul your heavy welder around everyday of its life or tow trailers constantly, diesel would be the one I'd go with. so I like both, just depends.
    Our road trucks are diesel because they are either F-800s or C-8500s. Both big models. Chevys have the C-7 CAT and the Fords have the Cummins. We do have one small road truck 3/4 ton chevy with service body and diesel bobcat, thats gas. it has 199,298 miles to be exact. Original trans, engine and all. Had to put intake gaskets on it twice is all.
    Just my 2 cents worth
    Scott
    HMW [Heavy Metal welding]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ocean City, Maryland
    Posts
    951

    Thumbs up

    Almost forgot, I understand Ford may be going to put a CAT w/ Allison in their Super Duty's in the future. That might be a killer combo.
    Last edited by HMW; 08-17-2007 at 10:39 AM. Reason: spelling
    Scott
    HMW [Heavy Metal welding]

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    arkansas
    Posts
    781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HMW View Post
    Almost forgot, I understand Ford may be going to put a CAT w/ Allison in their Super Duty's in the future. That might be a killer combo.
    almost all trucks have had a rumor that they were going to have a cat with an allison tranny combo. i wouldnt hold your breath on that one. an insider said to me to look for an all international diesel in the new fords. they're going back to the "old school" power stroke. as far as the allison, gm pretty much got the meat hooks into them pretty deep. probably wont see allison in med. duty trucks except for g.m. for a long while
    welder_one

    nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
    www.sicfabrications.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    arkansas
    Posts
    781

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by burnie View Post
    Right from new they will work excellently in any position with the appropriate rod except for a 1/8 7018 which seems to choke the arc until about 80 hrs when suddenly the work like a charm too
    do you know how to seat a generator? if you know what i am talking about and you have tried that, then i am out of ideas except a gas burner for the smaller machines and a diesel for the bigger ones. it just works out better unless you want to have the same fuel type for everything.
    welder_one

    nothing fancy, just a few hot glue guns for metal
    www.sicfabrications.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Bulverde, Tx
    Posts
    1,244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HMW View Post
    well that truck must have been before about 1987. Been fuel injection on most since. Our fleet is mixed with gas and diesel with larger stuff diesel. The gas engines, some with 200K miles do fine. We put plugs, cap and rotor in at 100K. Probably biggest thing with gas we've had, is electric fuel pumps. I have never had one, but I understand the dodge with the cummins is outstanding. Where I work we have Fords and Chevys. The old [ford]7.3 was a work horse, reliable and tough. Then along came the 6.0 which we work on constantly, jurys still out on the 6.4. The Chevys with the Dura-max, so far, seem good. only a couple of injector problems and lots of instrument clusters so far but pretty reliable. A pickup, for example thats used for normal things is a waste of money to buy diesel. [my opinion of course]In original purchase price, and if any repair costs. diesel fuel costs the same as gas. Now, to haul your heavy welder around everyday of its life or tow trailers constantly, diesel would be the one I'd go with. so I like both, just depends.
    Our road trucks are diesel because they are either F-800s or C-8500s. Both big models. Chevys have the C-7 CAT and the Fords have the Cummins. We do have one small road truck 3/4 ton chevy with service body and diesel bobcat, thats gas. it has 199,298 miles to be exact. Original trans, engine and all. Had to put intake gaskets on it twice is all.
    Just my 2 cents worth

    That truck was an '87. To each his own I suppose. I actually pull with my trucks. Average load is 8k to 10k#'s. Gas trucks were eating me alive in fuel costs and not lasting very long. I guess we were too rough on them. When I went to diesel, all was better. Way better mileage and power...not to mention longevity. I also run class 8 trucks, so I am not a stranger to diesels.
    Don


    '06 Trailblazer 302
    '06 12RC feeder
    Super S-32P feeder

    HH210 & DP3035 spool gun
    Esab Multimaster 260
    Esab Heliarc 252 AC/DC

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